Remove Wrong Speech?

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43

It’s a good question to ask oneself

Now thinking about it i’ve seen several posts with this kalama sutta reference and i didn’t want to say anything because nobody tags me, to me it’s not particularly interesting and i don’t like to jump in mid conversation.

However i got a bit annoyed and felt compelled to make this thread as there was much of this in the last few days. It was not entirely wholesome intent on my part, probably should’ve just addressed it in one of the threads.

I think it’s certainly taxing but if people post in good faith i think it’s ok.

I am sorry for making much of it and framing it so critically.

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44

You might be interested that suttapitaka has a relevant sutta

“Yes, this brahman student Kapadika must be accomplished in the texts of the Three Vedas, inasmuch as the brahmans honor him so.”

Then the thought occurred to Kapadika, “When Gotama the contemplative meets my gaze with his, I will ask him a question.”

And so the Blessed One, encompassing Kapadika’s awareness with his awareness, met his gaze. Kapadika thought, “Gotama the contemplative has turned to me. Suppose I ask him a question.” So he said to the Blessed One, “Master Gotama, with regard to the ancient hymns of the brahmans — passed down through oral transmission & included in their canon — the brahmans have come to the definite conclusion that “Only this is true; anything else is worthless.” What does Master Gotama have to say to this?”

“Tell me, Bharadvaja, is there among the brahmans even one brahman who says, ‘This I know; this I see; only this is true; anything else is worthless?’”

“No, Master Gotama.”

“And has there been among the brahmans even one teacher or teacher’s teacher back through seven generations who said, ‘This I know; this I see; only this is true; anything else is worthless?’”

“No, Master Gotama.”

“And among the brahman seers of the past, the creators of the hymns, the composers of the hymns — those ancient hymns, sung, repeated, & collected, which brahmans at present still sing, still chant, repeating what was said, repeating what was spoken — i.e., Atthaka, Vamaka, Vamadeva, Vessamitta, Yamataggi, Angirasa, Bharadvaja, Vasettha, Kassapa & Bhagu: was there even one of these who said, ‘This we know; this we see; only this is true; anything else is worthless?’”

“No, Master Gotama.”

"So then, Bharadvaja, it seems that there isn’t among the brahmans even one brahman who says, ‘This I know; this I see; only this is true; anything else is worthless.’ And there hasn’t been among the brahmans even one teacher or teacher’s teacher back through seven generations who said, ‘This I know; this I see; only this is true; anything else is worthless.’ And there hasn’t been among the brahman seers of the past, the creators of the hymns, the composers of the hymns… even one who said, ‘This we know; this we see; only this is true; anything else is worthless.’ Suppose there were a row of blind men, each holding on to the one in front of him: the first one doesn’t see, the middle one doesn’t see, the last one doesn’t see. In the same way, the statement of the brahmans turns out to be a row of blind men, as it were: the first one doesn’t see, the middle one doesn’t see, the last one doesn’t see. So what do you think, Bharadvaja: this being the case, doesn’t the conviction of the brahmans turn out to be groundless?"

“It’s not only out of conviction, Master Gotama, that the brahmans honor this. They also honor it as unbroken tradition.”

“Bharadvaja, first you went by conviction. Now you speak of unbroken tradition. There are five things that can turn out in two ways in the here-&-now. Which five? Conviction, liking, unbroken tradition, reasoning by analogy, & an agreement through pondering views. These are the five things that can turn out in two ways in the here-&-now. Now some things are firmly held in conviction and yet vain, empty, & false. Some things are not firmly held in conviction, and yet they are genuine, factual, & unmistaken. Some things are well-liked… truly an unbroken tradition… well-reasoned… Some things are well-pondered and yet vain, empty, & false. Some things are not well-pondered, and yet they are genuine, factual, & unmistaken. In these cases it isn’t proper for a knowledgeable person who safeguards the truth to come to a definite conclusion, 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.” Canki Sutta: With Canki

I think the excerpt from kalamasutta it is about blindly coming to a definitive conclusion based appeal to scriptural authority or tradition.

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45

Agreed. My current understanding of The Buddha’s teaching is that it is somewhat similar to the scientific method of inquiry.

i.e. All views, without exception, should be treated as hypotheses.

None should be clung to.

To the extent to which a hypothesis accurately predicts sensory experience, it should be “tentatively” regarded as true.

But not should ever be regarded as 100% true.

Saṅkhāra sassata natthi.

Malavagga; Dhp 255

Why is this, because if a single sensory motor prediction made by this hypothesis fails to predict sensory experience correctly, even once, then that hypothesis should no longer be regarded as true.

A new hypothesis must be formed to replace it.

The new hypothesis predicts both the new experience but also all the previous experiences that were accurately predicted by the invalidated hypothesis.

With this new hypothesis integrated into our dhamma, we can move through sensory experience with equanimity again.

But how do we typically respond to such mispredictions?

Consider the hypothesis that this misprediction is the “first arrow in the heart” that the Buddha referred to.

The first arrow in the heart is a misprediction of sensory experience.

How we respond to that first arrow determines whether additional arrows will be forthcoming.

Pain is inevitable, but suffering is a choice.

What choice?

The choice to respond skillfully or unskillfully to the first arrow.

If the arrow is small, (for example: we reach for a coffee cup to take a drink only to discover that we left it in another room) we can simply pull the arrow out, change our view, and continue moving forward.

However, if the arrow embedded in the heart is rather large, (for example: we discover that our partner has been cheating on us) this is not so easy to do.

It is in this situation that people are tempted to cling to views.

We are tempted to demand that sensory experience obey our view of the way the world SHOULD be.

Why is this?

Because the pain associated with changing the view is too great to bear.

Why is this?

Because the view that has been invalidated by sensory experience is so deeply nested in our belief system that changing it would be too expensive.

Changing it would involve going through hell.

Uprooting a core belief about how the world is is genuinely terrifying.

If you have ever experienced depression, like I have, you know what this terror is like.

Recalling what that terror is like, we should have infinite compassion for those who are clinging to views.

Their lashing out should be seen for what it actually is: an attempt to avoid the terror of that experience.

IMHO, depression is the collapse we experience when the evidence that our beliefs are wrong is so overwhelming that the web of lies used to resist it can no longer be maintained.

In depression, microglia physically eat the synaptic connections corresponding to the wrong views.

During this time, we experience not only depression but also anxiety because the map that guides our movements through sensory experience (AKA akusala dhamma) has been completely destroyed.

For this reason, it is entirely understandable that people cling to views.

They know, consciously or unconsciously, that the collapse into depression that would be necessary in order to change their view would be a terrifying experience.

Therefore, in this context, when Māra tempts us with the craving for the desired sensory experience of clinging to views, that temptation can be very difficult to resist. Even though a part of us knows that giving into the temptation of taṇhā leads to rebirth in saṁsāra, aging and death, we see no way out of this cycle so we give into the temptation and we quarrel with others to defend our view.

In my estimation, this is where clinging to views and quarreling comes from.

It seems like a no win situation.

But this is not true.

There is a way out.

We patiently and persistently turn towards the uncomfortable truth which we are avoiding and we sit with it until such a time as we are ready to tease apart the inner conflict which is giving rise to suffering and resolve it.

The inner conflict is always the same.

One part of us craves for and clings to the desire for a particular sensory experience.

It does so because it believes (wrongly) that this must be true in order for suffering to be avoided.

Another part of us ardently insists upon seeing the world the way it actually is.

It does so because it believes (rightly) that having a map of sensory experience (dhamma) which accurately predicts sensory experience is absolutely necessary to move through sensory experience with the enduring inner peace of equanimity.

Heroically turning towards the suffering and not turning away until the underlying conflict has been resolved is, what I call, the “heroic path to nibbana” and it actually works.

I share it with others because I know, from my own experience, that it actually works.

If you do this, you will NEVER experience the suffering of depression again.

Why is this?

Because unresolved conflicts do not accumulate.

They are resolved before they can accumulate.

Accumulated unresolved inner conflicts are the cause of all suffering.

As our skill at resolving them increases, they will cease to accumulate.

As they cease to accumulate, we become more fearless and thus more willing to heroically turn towards even more challenging uncomfortable truths.

Others will naturally feel our strength and want to replicate what we have done.

5 powers + 7 factors:

saddha (faith) + viriya (heroic effort) ← first nudge; towards “sati”; with the aim of countering avijjā

sati (mindfulness)

dhamma vicaya (investigation) + viriya (heroic effort) ← second nudge; towards “samadhi” with the aim of vipassanā

pīti (rapture)

passaddhi (tranquility)

samādhi (unification of mind)

pañña (understanding) + upekkha (equanimity)

48

It is all agreeable and it is clear that you’ve seen how this is.

I think devotion to truth is very important, it’s fanatical pursuit is the key to it’s definitive attainment.

One will do well in developing a disdain for ignorance & delusion in all circumstances such as i.e. lying to others because that will make one believe one’s own lies.

People are rarely interested in real communication as to hash out one’s beliefs because this requires having someone they consider worth listening to.

When the republicans debate democrats, there is no intent of coming to an alignment with general truth, the communication is akin to dogs barking to defend one’s relative perceived advantage & position in the society.

The many leaders of different sects don’t often try to figure out the truth either because it would cost them everything they have built up for themselves.

Likewise people have pride & liking of their views & culture in general and there is then that to lose as people get all entangled & invested over time.

People are content with this because they are content with lying to themselves due to a lack of devotion-development but there are many other ways to say this.

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