Samādhi is both a gathering and a fire

“Homage to the straightforward ones” :pray::innocent:

I love it! Thanks Bhante :slightly_smiling_face:

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I like it @sujato, as always when the abstract is made more alive and concrete. But I think the two “samadhis” of ‘kindling’ and ‘bringing together’ are not that different that we could say they are different concepts/roots.

Because when you’re kindling a fire you bring together a fire source (like a coal) into a bunch of grass or whatever. And then you bring that burning grass together with the wood, another kind of kindling.

I was reminded of this thread when reading (= stumbling across) Chandogya 6.7.5 which uses upasamādhāya in exactly this sense. I don’t know Sanskrit well, but it seems a form of samādhi. Upa- denoting probably direction. Bringing together from above (upa-), i.e. “covering”.

So I think ‘bringing together’ is the basic meaning of samādhi, just applied to the specific case of starting a fire, where it got a slightly more technical (but not really different) meaning. And this meaning is indeed played with in the context of meditation, which is interesting. But I think meditation samadhi originally was derived just from the primary meaning. (Also because that makes more sense pragmatically.)

Side note: In Dutch I don’t think there’s an equivalent to “kindling”. The closest I can think of is “aanmaken” = “on-making”, i.e. to ignite. Just shows how language-dependent it all is. English is a very rich language compared to some others, so sometimes maybe it’s tempting to think certain ideas are distinct which in other languages/cultures are seen as more connected. (Which is part of Sujato’s point, I suppose.) Anyway I’m starting to ramble now.

Bye! metta to all SC-goers.

Edut: Oops replied to linda. Didn’t intend to do that.

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Interesting point. Also it seems the English word “kindle” enjoys a similar semantic spectrum: it is derived from or at least influenced by the word “kind” in the sense of “sort, type”, i.e. “kin”, which in a causative sense gives “beget”, “have children”, “produce”, i.e. “kindle”.

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Well I will give my own intuitive understanding of the word “Samadhi”. I am guessing many places in north east India use the word ‘samadhi’ in funeral cards, when somebody in family dies. I have seen it in Bengal.

The root word ‘sam’ means, even, equal, coherent, together, balanced, all pervading, complete, unbiased etc. ‘a’ means above and ‘dhi’ means intellect as in ‘Buddhi’ (fem) or Buddho (mas). I pondered why ‘jhana’, ‘dyana’ would be compared with the metaphor of ‘death’?

Well ‘jhana’ is a withdrawal and gradual turning of senses and mind (intellect) inward and going beyond the five even six sensory physical 3D world to develop insight and awaken intelligence into the nature of Mind, Self and Reality. I do not know if anyone sees it this way. But I am putting it out there anyway.

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Hello Bhante :pray:t4:,

As I read them, these statements are (potentially) a bit misleading. I’d like to clarify:

As you note, in Pali the present form dahati is ambiguous insofar as it can be connected with the verbs ‘to burn’ and ‘to put’. In Sanskrit however, the same present forms are easily distinguishable, cf. dáhati ‘she burns’ and dádhāti ‘she places’. The corresponding PIE roots are *dheguh- ‘to burn’ and *dheH- ‘to place’. [please excuse lack of superscript].

Formally, samādhi can only be connected with the verbal base ‘to put’.

Thanks for the clarification. :pray:

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There are some passages like this in all four of the agamas, including both Samyukta Agamas, and quite a few other texts. Some examples:

入火三昧
入火焰三昧
入火光三昧
入火光定
入火界定
入火定
入於火定

It seems to me that there is also an association between samadhi and heat in the Sarvastivada dhyana tradition, through the stage of prayoga. Of the four nirvedhabhagiyas of prayoga, the first is usmagata (heat). Vasubandhu describes this as a fire that burns defilements.

Daoists also connected “samadhi” with “fire”, in the context of internal alchemy. But they instead used the terminology “true fire of samadhi” (三昧真火), or “spirit-fire of samadhi” (三昧神火). The older form of the character 真 was 眞, with connotations of alchemy and immortality. The character 眞 in turn includes 鼎 which is an early type of bronze cauldron used for rituals. In the context of internal alchemy and meditation, the cauldron became the body. An early form of 鼎 in the bronze script:

image

The Daoist phrase “true fire of samadhi” (三昧真火) also made its way into Journey to the West. It’s now kind of in the “pop culture” far beyond the people who are just interested in ancient religions and such. Apparently it’s even the name of some barbecue restaurants.