5 Buddha's unique inventions

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The problem with vedas is many information has been lost

There were originally about 1193 branches of the Vedas, with only 11 ‘alive’ today.

that means less than 1% of what we originally had.
Mayiliragu: The Amount of Vedas We Have Lost - More than 99 %

And it’s possible that the jhana/brahmavihara information was lost too together with the lost of the branches of veda

but Why do you only refer to vedas not upanishad,brahmanas,samhitas etc ?

Because in suttas only 3 vedas are mentioned so it’s possible that upanishad,brahmanas, samhitas, etc are codified after the spread of buddhism

So we can only use suttas assuming they are authentic they refer to brahmins as practitioner of jhanas and the buddha said he did brahmavihara when he was a brahmin in past life these are strong evidence that jhana and brahmavihara is not buddha’s original teaching

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I have heard it said that Buddha only had 2 unique ideas: The noble 8-fold path, and Pratityasamutpada (dependent origination)

Is “dependent origination” not an original Buddhist idea?

Is mindfulness meditation an original idea from Buddha, or was this already practiced by other groups in India at the time? (I had not heard this attributed as an original Buddhist idea before now)

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According to SN 12. 4 to SN 12.10 the d.o. is an original Buddhas idea. E.g. Gotama Buddha’s:
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.10/en/sujato

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This topic might be of interest: How much of Buddhism is Uniquely Buddhist?

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Yes it is, I differentiate between practice and theory, those 3 innovations are unique practices not learned before

These 2 are buddha’s unique theories not learned before

36.25
“‘These are the feelings.’ Such was the vision, knowledge, wisdom, realization, and light that arose in me regarding teachings not learned before from another.

‘This is the origin of feeling.’ …

‘This is the practice that leads to the origin of feeling.’ …

‘This is the cessation of feeling.’ …

‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of feeling.’ …

‘This is the gratification of feeling.’ …

‘This is the drawback of feeling.’ …

‘This is the escape from feeling.’ Such was the vision, knowledge, wisdom, realization, and light that arose in me regarding teachings not learned before from another.”

Sn12.10
“Mendicants, before my awakening—when I was still unawakened but intent on awakening—I thought: ‘Alas, this world has fallen into trouble. It’s born, grows old, dies, passes away, and is reborn, yet it doesn’t understand how to escape from this suffering, from old age and death. Oh, when will an escape be found from this suffering, from old age and death?’

Then it occurred to me: ‘When what exists is there old age and death? What is a condition for old age and death?’ Then, through proper attention, I comprehended with wisdom: ‘When rebirth exists there’s old age and death. Rebirth is a condition for old age and death.’

Then it occurred to me: ‘When what exists is there rebirth? … continued existence … grasping … craving … feeling … contact … the six sense fields … name and form … consciousness … ‘When what exists are there choices? What is a condition for choices?’ Then, through proper attention, I comprehended with wisdom: ‘When ignorance exists there are choices. Ignorance is a condition for choices.’

And so, ignorance is a condition for choices.

Choices are a condition for consciousness. … That is how this entire mass of suffering originates. ‘Origination, origination.’ Such was the vision, knowledge, wisdom, realization, and light that arose in me regarding teachings not learned before from another.

Then it occurred to me: ‘When what doesn’t exist is there no old age and death? When what ceases do old age and death cease?’ Then, through proper attention, I comprehended with wisdom: ‘When rebirth doesn’t exist there’s no old age and death? When rebirth ceases, old age and death cease.’

Then it occurred to me: ‘When what doesn’t exist is there no rebirth? … continued existence … grasping … craving … feeling … contact … the six sense fields … name and form … consciousness … ‘When what doesn’t exist are there no choices? When what ceases do choices cease?’ Then, through proper attention, I comprehended with wisdom: ‘When ignorance doesn’t exist there are no choices. When ignorance ceases, choices cease.’

And so, when ignorance ceases, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases. … That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases. ‘Cessation, cessation.’ Such was the vision, knowledge, wisdom, realization, and light that arose in me regarding teachings not learned before from another.”

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The Buddha’s inventions (or the earliest Buddhism) are in fact shown in the EBTs of SN/SA, mainly in two portions (the sutta/sutra and geyya/geya angas of SN/SA):

  1. The early Buddhist teaching of aggregates, sense spheres, causal condition, and the path (indicated in Khandha, Salayatana, Nidana, and Maha vaggas of SN/SA).

  2. The early Buddhist adaptation of general Indian religious beliefs about deities or divine beings (devas) (shown in Sagatha vagga/Eight assemblies section of SN/SA).

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Why has anyone not commented on the Brahmajala Sutta the Buddha clearly says that there are 62 kinds of views the view of the nighantas, matted ascetics etc. brahminical view being one of them. The Buddha no where does he take the word Hindu because there was no such word
Kindly please do understand the Suttas correctly it was Brahminism (worshipers of the forces of nature, ones doing yaganas, fire worshipers appeasing the forces of nature etc) it was during the ministry of the Buddha that the various planes of existence according to the different stations of consciousness was told in detail in the mahasamaya Sutta and atanatiya Sutta etc the various divine beings and their capabilities and skills acquired due to their merits and the planes being reborn into nowhere is it explained in the three Vedas
The word Hindu and Hinduism were coined much later after the Tripitaka was translated into Sanskrit and most of the brahminical scriptures were rewritten from the 2nd century AD onwards a lot of information was taken out from the Suttas and rewritten as brahminical texts example the story of raja harishchandra is taken directly from the vessantara jataka Mahayana Buddhism is to be blamed for this actually we can write a thesis regarding this its of no use
the Buddha very clearly states that its the noble eight foldpath is the one which takes us out of samsara and no other path. in which teachings there’s the noble eight foldpath only that teachings leads you towards emancipation and all other teachings will keep you bound to samsara so don’t worry much about all these issues they will not benefit you in your progress on the path of enlightenment
In the dhammapada its clearly mentioned
Rare is a human birth
Hard is the life of mortals
Rare it is to listen to the true Dhamma
Rare it is to see the awakened One
You have been born as a human being in a time period where still the Buddha sasana is there and you have got an opportunity to listen to the Buddha Dhamma and practice the noble eight foldpath so you’re satisfying the three conditions be happy for that just focus on your goal

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Welcome to D&D Umesh! :pray:t4::grin:

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It is good to make it clear that DN1 is not only talking about Contemplatives and Brahmins from the time of the Buddha.

“In the first case, bhikkhus, some recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardour, endeavour, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated, [purified, clarified, unblemished, devoid of corruptions], he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects) one birth, two, three, four, or five births; ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty births; a hundred, a thousand, or a hundred thousand births; many hundreds of births, many thousands of births, many hundreds of thousands of births. (He recalls:) ‘Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.’ Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
SuttaCentral

For example, there are Contemplatives and Brahmins who lived at the time of Buddha Kassapa.

and just as the Dhamma taught by Buddha Kassapa was not present when the Buddha of the present age was learning to meditate before his Enlightenment.

The Teachings of these Contemplatives and Brahmins mentioned in DN1 also did not exist at the time of the current Buddha.

“In the first case, bhikkhus, some recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardour, endeavour, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated, [purified, clarified, unblemished, devoid of corruptions], he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects) one birth, two, three, four, or five births; ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty births; a hundred, a thousand, or a hundred thousand births; many hundreds of births, many thousands of births, many hundreds of thousands of births. (He recalls:) ‘Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.’ Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
SuttaCentral

“Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or brahmin, by means of ardour, endeavour, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects his past lives throughout) one aeon of world-contraction and expansion, throughout two, three, four, five, or ten aeons of world-contraction and expansion. (He recalls:) ‘Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.’ Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
SuttaCentral

In addition to the Contemplatives and Brahmins mentioned in DN1, they are from other times.

They can also be from other Cosmic Cycles … (other universes ?!)

The DN1 Brahmajālasutta, The Prime Net, it is a very vast Sutta that encompasses all of Existence, all of Samsara.

So we have to be careful to mention DN1 as an example that the Buddha learned to meditate with the Contemplatives and Brahmins mentioned in this Sutta.

:anjal:

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that the alleged lost Vedas could have these concepts does not sustantiate the claim that jhana and brahmavihara practices were of Brahminical/vedic origin.

My understanding of Brahminism in the space and time of Gautama Buddha (I am considering that he flourished around 6th century bc) is very much rooted in the notion that Brahminical values and culture was not that prominent when the Buddha got enlightenment, preached his sermons, for the Sangha, proclaimed the Dhamma and attained Nibbāna, though there were Brahmins (both as a brahmin class, and the Brahmins who were a constituent of the group ‘ascetics and Brahmins’).

I am also of the opinion that upnishadic thought borrowed many elements from Buddha and his Dhamma, and not the other way around. So that would make Alara Kalama and Uttaka Ramaputta not Brahmin teachers but belonging to the Ascetics group that was prevalent in EBT region. (These are opinions, as for now I haven’t gathered any discussions on these yet).

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do we have any documentary evidences or Books references or articles references showing that in India Hindu Vedas were there / were chanted before Buddhism- if so please share

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are not Buddha inventions but discoveries:

"In the same way I saw an ancient path, an ancient road, traveled by the Rightly Self-awakened Ones of former times. And what is that ancient path, that ancient road, traveled by the Rightly Self-awakened Ones of former times? Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right aspiration, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. That is the ancient path, the ancient road, traveled by the Rightly Self-awakened Ones of former times. I followed that path. Following it, I came to direct knowledge of aging & death, direct knowledge of the origination of aging & death, direct knowledge of the cessation of aging & death, direct knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of aging & death. I followed that path. Following it, I came to direct knowledge of birth… becoming… clinging… craving… feeling… contact… the six sense media… name-&-form… consciousness, direct knowledge of the origination of consciousness, direct knowledge of the cessation of consciousness, direct knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of consciousness. I followed that path.

SN 12.65

Buddhist inventions arose after Buddha until present times. Some are wrong views, some not.