A distraction

Agree.
I brought it up as it was in OP.
I understand there are reports that nun’s are abused by monks.
For me it is a serious concern but not how to lining to obtain food.
You did not answer my question “What should be the order of lining to obtain food”
Ok I will tell my experience.

  • When I was young my mother first give food to father then children and she take the food last.
  • When I have a party in my house we feed the children first then the women then the men I take the food last.
  • When we go to a buffet who ever goes first.

Considering above what should be the order of lining to obtain food by monks?

Second thought @mikenz66
Do not worry it appears moderators think my attempt to answer OP as a distraction.
So I bow down from this thread.

Let’s put it this way, if everything else was equal most people would not care much about the food line.

Actually I’m glad (sometimes) to have a voice of ‘traditional’ Buddhism. It prevents us from thinking that our particular bubble of ‘western’ Buddhism is self-evidently correct. But it also shows how pointless discussions sometimes seem to be.

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  1. What is the reason Bhikkhunnis walk behind Samaneras on Pindapata? Tradition or Vinaya?
  2. We’re you Bhikkhunis not aware of this before you ordained?
  3. Why do you want to change these things now?
  4. Are you not happy with the way you are treated?

I think that If it is tradition, then dialogue can change these issues to come more into line with the 21st century ans treatment of women. I don’t think it needs to be compared with black activists though as their treatment was a lot more harmful, and it may encourage a schism of some sort with the arising of anger.

Do you mean a schism of Sangha?

Possibly.
There is potential If the Nuns were to become activists and refused to follow tradition and rules.
This is an extreme possibility and is not something likely to happen before any dialogue and is probably going off topic here.

As far as I’m aware Nuns do not get mistreated the way blacks did in the 50’s, or am I incorrect?

Good point.
This is the very reason I strongly trying to make my point to avoid a future schism of Sangha. We all know the repercussion of this.

Well, my point in making the comparison was that the OP was picking on one of the relatively small issues, and seemed to be using that to dismiss the very serious problems that seem to exist.

Similarly, there were a lot worse things happening in the US in the 1950s than segregated toilets and busses.

As I understand the rule regarding ‘schism in the sangha’ is related to a sangha not the Sangha. Ie a single community not the Maha-Sangha. This would be community of monks or a community of nuns (at least 4)

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Is it so that bhikkhunis are barred from certain practices of the Noble Eightfold Path? Are there “males only” kinds of practice?

The human nature is “fighting”, right. For something. There will be always what to fight for. This is a kind of craving and/or aversion.

I think Bhante @sujato is the expert in this issue.

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19831&hilit=

:laughing: Interesting to see how easily a distraction gains traction! Of course, it is difficult to make the call as to where it is best to let pointless babble just peter out on it’s own accord (alas, more than likely, over course of a full generation or more in the case of this particular issue) and where to take up and examine curious ideas that could perhaps do well for additional perspective.

Given that in many places the bhikkhuni sangha is barred from existing, the answer kind of has to be yes, indeed, bhikkhunis (by the logical necessity of non-existence precluding all activity) are barred from practising the Noble Eightfold Path. But this, perhaps, is more a linguistic point.

A further more practical point might be that, if in those places where their existence is to some degree or other recognised, but the surrounding culture leads to a critical lack in the provision of basic requisites then, in effect, yes again, it could be said that bhikkhunis are barred from practising the Noble Eightfold Path as bhikkhunis.

But, of course, if your point is that there is nothing in the Noble Eightfold Path that laywomen can’t endeavour to cultivate then, as a self-contained point, I’d most certainly agree.

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I think this is a blessing in disguise.
Buddha has given the best opportunity for the female to attain the liberation faster than men.
Elimination of self identification is the harderst thing.

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Is this true. “Buddha has given the best opportunity for the female to attain the liberation faster than men”?

If it is not true why say it?
:thinking:

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Incorrect. Middle path is the ‘best’ way to liberation. That means neither self-glorification nor self-deprecating. When you have the years of experience and ordination and a junior is placed above you on basis of sex, that is deprecating, therefore not middle way, no matter how anyone wants to sell it.

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Greetings,

I’ve been lurking here for a little while. I found this thread, as well as a few others on here alarming in relation to the mostly male views on Bhikkunis.

The whole status of Bhikkunis and their striving for legitimacy, respect and support hurts me. I feel they have inherited a bum deal and I truly wish that in a hundred years time, when the seeds of these new Bhikkuni communities have bloomed that this nonsensical patriarchal bent which undermines them today will fade into the distance. Surely, by sheer fact of one ‘going forth’ and abstaining from pro-creating and sexual pleasures, the notion of gender for monastics must in theory evaporate and render them in essence ‘genderless’. So if that is the case this suppressing and undermining of Bhikkunis looks even more ludicrous.

I myself have witnessed elderly Bhikkunis serve young novices food and then proceed to take their meals in a completely different room to the Bhikkus in a monastery. And you know what, as a male layperson staying at the monastery - I found this very insulting to these women and it made me uncomfortable.

All these frightened notions of imaginary ‘schisms’ tearing apart a Sangha also seem equally ludicrous to me. All institutions, over time develop a skewed sense of control and power due to hermetically sealed containers these ecosystems exist within. And buddhism, being an institution - is no different. And how challenging the monastic community’s misogynist views will hurt the Dhamma is beyond me, it will only help it spread further by being more inclusive to women. So yes, if old power structures need to be abandoned and institutions refreshed for the sake of equality or justice, bring on your imaginary schisms.

And to you Bhikkunis out there striving forth in face of the the sillyness, I leave you with some wisdom from the great Hunter S. Thompson - “Don’t take any guff from these swine”.

Will love,

x

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Wouldn’t lining up according to the number of rains retreats be reasonable?

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No. it is nothing to do with eating.

It is true.
Buddha sat on a bunch of grass no in an extravagant chair.
I have seen some Buddhist monks sit on overly decorated chairs and I think this is unnecessary.
I know monks are not to be blamed but the lay people who provide them. But monks should educate the lay people with these unnecessary expenses. I think there are some restriction on how monks used their beds and chairs.

Well then flip a coin. Who cares? Why base it on some gender-based pecking order?