A genuinely progressive Buddhism?

[laurence]

@ERose

There is no discrimination or oppression in the Sangha.

There is discrimination in Thailand, everywhere, in some Thai people, in some monks or nuns, in some incorrect world views; one might say, those “things” are in some people at this time.

The situation may not be something confined to Thailand judging from the following quotes from an earlier thread:

@vimalanyani

I’m getting the impression that people assume that gender inequality would be removed if we abolished the garudhammas. But this is actually only the tip of the iceberg. The discrimination is much deeper and much more systemic in the vinaya.

To give a few examples:

In order to become bhikkhunis in the first place in line with the vinaya, the ordination has to be confirmed by the monks. So the male sangha will always have control over who can join the female sangha.

Many garudhammas are also rules in the pacittiya class of offenses that is included in the patimokkha and recited every two weeks. Even if you accept that the garudhammas as a separate group are late, you can’t change the pacittiyas in the patimokkha. Besides these “garudhamma-pacittiyas”, there are also other pacittiya rules that subjugate nuns to monks.

@vimalanyani

The parajikas (the heaviest class of offenses that lead to immediate expulsion from the sangha) are much stricter for nuns. Since the Buddha only allowed minor rules to be abolished, this is not something that can be changed.

Similar to the ordination procedure, nuns require the monks’ participation in several other sangha acts in order to carry them out in line with the vinaya. Thus the communities cannot be independent and depend on the goodwill of the monks. This gives the monks a lot of control over the nuns.

It is a big misunderstanding to assume that only the garudhammas are the problem.