A Note from Matty Weingast on The First Free Women

Thank you :slight_smile:

You make many excellent points.

Firstly I should make a correction or explanation about this point.

I’m sorry if my expression was clumsy here. I don’t mean to say that what M Weingast writes is ‘bad’ or wrong in and of itself (I have no opinion on this at all). But more of a principle in the context of changing/removing the message that was given in the Therigatha. The problems come when the new text looks/appears to be from the Theri.

I understand and accept what you are saying here. It is great that the poems have helped you make a connection to the Dhamma :slight_smile: But I believe that this all comes under the category of teaching and presenting the Dhamma. One of the important aspects is to teach/hear the right teachings at the right time. The Buddha taught for over 40 years and there is an abundance of material. It is not difficult to find something that specifically addresses almost any need. There are many texts and poems in the Canon. But I don’t even think it is necessary to just stick with Early Buddhist texts … my point being that there is a vast choice available - there is NO Necessity to alter existing texts to change their meaning to illustrate a different point - one just needs to choose the right text in the first place. Or a poem written by someone else that can be used to illustrate aspects of it… :slight_smile:

I am viewing this whole issue as having several different parts. Firstly and most importantly was the issue of this book being published as a translation - which it was, which has been acknowledged as a serious mistake (to the point the publisher is retracting it and re-issuing). This is a vital issue, since the work was in danger of replacing the original - This cuts off and destroys the opportunity of individuals to have access to the true Dhamma in the future.

The second issue is on a much smaller scale (imo) and is about appropriation of the voices of the Theris and putting different words into their mouths, as in the example above.

I really don’t like to speculate, specualtion is all fantasy - but in this case, in the absence of clear responses we are left with a vacuum. I can see that a project that initially starts as an intention to translate, can evolve over time. In imaging how this could happen, I can see that the original structure of the work follows that of the Therigatha, with chapters, names, formatting etc. But what comes next is the bit that is a bit disjointed and causes the problems… If the mode is now mostly inspiration and generation of new material, but the format and structure is not changed, then it looks like appropriation. It’s like re-using a jar for a different purpose - but care needs to be taken with the Label… If the label says ‘honey’, but it is filled with something else you can get into trouble. If the new contents is clearly and obviously different (eg with pebbles), you get the idea pretty clearly that it has been re-purposed. But if the label says honey, and the contents still looks like honey but is actually oil, then we are starting to get into murky waters…

I would suggest that by keeping the structure, the names of the Theris at the head of the poems etc, that this makes it unclear that these are new poems and not the message that the Enlightened Nuns gave. Because of this dynamic, and the removal of the Dhamma lessons that the Nuns were giving, this is what is causing the problem.

But as I said before, this is a secondary issue and of much lower impact overall, but is why I can’t see it as very skillful. But this is my opinion only, though it has obviously caused a lot of angst for many people.

This is great :slight_smile: But this same result would come simply from having the right materials and methods for teaching :slight_smile: You would get this same effect if the poem were written without being packaged as what Sangha Theri said.

As I said before there are so many rich materials to choose from. And if one wants to write some new and inspiring material that is great :slight_smile: One doesn’t need to appropriate an existing treasured scripture to do so. There is no reason why suttas and additional material can’t be presented together either.

When teaching anything, specially something as complex as the Dhamma, many examples are given. If we were to again use the example of the verse above, there is no reason why one can’t focus in and draw out aspects.

I’m spelling this out, so as to try to be as clear as possible and avoid misunderstandings, so apologies if it seems to be labouring a point …

So this contains the entire practice, and the entirety of the teaching could be extrapolated from this. (As one becomes more familiar with the teachings of the Buddha, one begins to appreciate the absolute genius of how the Buddha taught. The Dhamma is presented like a fractal - one can telescope out to immense perspectives, or focus down to microscopic perspectives, and the whole time there is perfect integrity and repetition from multitudinuous angles and perspectives - it is truly a joy)

So lets focus on the words ‘dispelled ignorance’ in the poem. One of the practices involved in facilitating Wisdom (the opposite of ignorance) is meditation - one of the practices of meditation is mindfulness of breathing (anapanasati). But there are also many more practices. So by only drawing out this one very small aspect of the sutta, and discarding the rest, it is a reduction of the Dhamma inherent in the words of the Nun. It is already in there, but is only one small aspect. But you can’t teach everything all at once - so the materials relevant to breath meditation need to be brought in. If one wanted to, (not that I’m recommending this at all, just as an illustration of a point) one could structure an entire series of classes using just those few words in the Theri’s verse. It would involve expanding it out, and then zooming in to each relevant element. There is no need, and I have to ask how skillful it is, to make a new version of the poem. Note, a wholly new poem, not ascribed to the Theri, is no problem, as long as one knows that it is oil and not honey…

Of course every one teaches differently, and thank goodness for that! We are all so different and so access to a wide variety of materials and approaches is really important. And we are so very fortunate to have access to such great materials.

I thank you for your earnest engagement here :slight_smile: and I hope that I have been able to articulate this perspective a bit more clearly.

I hope that you also have an opportunity to have a bit of a look around the Suttas and what the Buddha actually taught :slight_smile: Not all of the texts are difficult or hard to understand :slight_smile:

With much metta and best wishes for your journey on the Path of Peace :pray: :slight_smile: :dharmawheel: :sparkling_heart:

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