I didn’t say that was his motivation. I know he was seeking an escape from all suffering, and the world of birth and death. All I said is that in renouncing his worldly life, he was not held back by the social obligations he was raised to believe he had.
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It was certainly a large part of his motivation.
And what may be said to be subject to birth? Wife and children are subject to birth, men and women slaves, goats and sheep, fowl and pigs, elephants, cattle, horses, and mares, gold and silver are subject to birth. These acquisitions are subject to birth; and one who is tied to these things, infatuated with them, and utterly committed to them, being himself subject to birth, seeks what it also subject to birth.
And what may be said to be subject to defilement? Wife and children are subject to defilement, men and women slaves, goats and sheep, fowl and pigs, elephants, cattle, horses, and mares, gold and silver are subject to defilement. These acquisitions are subject to defilement; and one who is tied to these things, infatuated with them, and utterly committed to them, being himself subject to defilement, seeks what is also subject to defilement. This is the ignoble search.
MN 26
Māgandiya, formerly when I lived the home life, I enjoyed myself, provided and endowed with the five cords of sensual pleasure: with forms cognizable by the eye…with sounds cognizable by the ear…with odours cognizable by the nose…with flavours cognizable by the tongue…with tangibles cognizable by the body that are wished for, desired, agreeable, and likeable, connected with sensual desire and provocative of lust. I had three palaces, one for the rainy season, one for the winter, and one for the summer. I lived in the rains’ palace for the four months of the rainy season, enjoying myself with musicians, none of whom were men, and I did not go down to the lower palace.
On a later occasion, having understood as they actually are the origin, the disappearance, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in the case of sensual pleasures, I abandoned craving for sensual pleasures, I removed fever for sensual pleasures, and I abide without thirst, with a mind inwardly at peace. I see other beings who are not free from lust for sensual pleasures being devoured by craving for sensual pleasures, burning with fever for sensual pleasures, indulging in sensual pleasures, and I do not envy them, nor do I delight therein. Why is that? Because there is, Māgandiya, a delight apart from sensual pleasures, apart from unwholesome states which surpasses even divine bliss. Since I take delight in that, I do not envy what is inferior, nor do I delight therein.
MN 75
What exactly is this most grand vision? To believe all people are just like you and I; that we are all beset by cravings and thoughts of harm or lying or manipulation?
I’m sorry if my question offended anyone, it DEFINITELY was not my intention.
How do I deactivate my account?
Yeah, we are delusional species, perpetuating the wrong view.
Hi Tupelo. I have not followed your conversation here however I would not take the attitude of “offending” anyone. Its just talk here, in the spirit of metta (unconditional friendliness), 
No, I got an email saying my question was not appropriate.
I feel like a jerk now, how do I get off of this thing? I’ve been trying to figure it out all night.
I thought you meant they actually were hungry ghosts because I assumed from your previous posts you have the view of a psychological-only interpretation of the different realms described in the suttas. Forgive me if that’s not the case.
Metta. Kindness. Forgivness. Understanding. Enlightenment. A right to happiness. 
Don’t sweat the small stuff, particularly when it is only ‘words’. Let it pass & go. 
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Element/Deeele,
I suggest you not waste time asking me questions as I won’t be answering them. Conversation with you is decidedly and consistently unpleasant and unbeneficial.
The Buddha teaches the world about happiness; that happiness is the product of wisdom at sense contact. Other people do not cause the mind unhappiness. This is the ABCs of Buddhism. 
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with an impure mind a person speaks or acts suffering follows him like the wheel that follows the foot of the ox.
Mind precedes all mental states. Mind is their chief; they are all mind-wrought. If with a pure mind a person speaks or acts happiness follows him like his never-departing shadow.
“He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me.” Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
“He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me.” Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
There are those who do not realize that one day we all must die. But those who do realize this settle their quarrels.
Dhp1
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Hey guys,
Just a quick informal word - no-one here is a jerk, we are not offended and let’s not begin attacking one another or others outside when we have the opportunity to discuss the Dhamma here instead. Let’s bring it back to what matters.
@Tupelo, you are most certainly not a jerk, if you have any concerns or queries please feel free to contact the moderators. It is not possible for users to deactivate their accounts.
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My personal take on the matter is that whoever sent you this email is a jerk themselves. Sorry for the harsh words, I don’t mean it in an offensive way but rather as a rendering of andhaputhujjana. If that person thinks I am wrong, they can PM me any time.
Your question is perfectly fine, Tupelo, and you are coming across as a thoughtful, compassionate and very agreeable person 
Hello @Tupelo
I’m not sure what’s going on here. I’ve been following the conversation, but don’t understand what’s happening.
Is this the question in question?
I really appreciate the question you posted. It has taken the conversation in a new direction. Because you’ve asked this, we got lots of valuable insight on the workings of karma from many different people here. Personally, I cannot understand how this question would be inappropriate.
I’m glad you posted this.
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A few things to consider…
There has been quite some confusion about a question that was posted earlier. It might be a little off topic, but hopefully this post will leave things on a positive note.
The question was about karma:
While that question has sparked an interesting conversation, it has also unfortunately offended some people. Tupelo and me, WeatherGirl, didn’t understand this situation at first. But it seems that the specific wording of the question could have (or already has) upset or triggered someone. We both meant no disrespect.
Perhaps we can take this into consideration and choose less “loaded” examples in the future, or add a little disclaimer to prevent confusion.
I also would like to apologize right now to everybody who felt offended.
However, please let’s consider this as well:
There are a lot of people out there who might have very similar questions on their mind. Most of them are likely just seeking answers to morally challenging matters. They don’t mean to judge or engage in ill speech, but simply use their own words to describe those matters.
Because we are able to ask such questions openly on this forum, we have been provided with some well-written answers by knowledgeable people who care about the Dhamma. Now those who are not as familiar with the teachings of the Buddha (or the community guidelines of this forum ;-)) might type their questions into a search engine one day and end up somewhere here as well, possibly benefiting from it and gaining new insight.
Keeping all this in mind, can we continue together on a positive note?
By the way, thank you to everyone who has been sharing their thoughts and opinions!
With metta
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@WeatherGirl
You’re very sweet to take partial credit 
. It was my comment and I should have thought about how it would effect others before blurting it out.
I am sorry for that.
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Glad you’re back, Lorie. There are so many good, and kind, and smart people here, and I hoped whatever unkindness was messaged to you would not dissuade you from coming back to this forum. Your question, in my view, was completely fine, and the question itself goes to the heart of how kamma is understood ( and sometimes misunderstood) in the Dhamma. If hope that you feel comfortable and safe posting here; I have found your approach to be very positive and welcome more questions and insights from you.
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Thank you!
No one was unkind, just reminding me to be more mindful and that is just fine.
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Dear weather girl.
Within Buddhist practice, not the religious scholastic theory of people who do not know how to practice, happiness is the second thing one learns to generate in meditation. The first thing is pleasure. It is not anything difficult, only with ten minutes of practice you manage to generate all the serotonin you want and thus you can be happy until the overdose (which is convulsions). It is what the Buddha discovered (MN 85) and for this he ate boiled and curdled rice (rich in tryptophan, glucose and vitamin B6) necessary for the brain to synthesize correctly and create imbalances.
The Buddha clearly distinguished between this happiness, which is free and does not produce attachment, that is, does not produce kamma, the happiness of the senses that binds you and takes you to hell.
In fact, one of the most radical changes when you enter the stream (first level of illumination) is that you lose the eternal smile and eradicate happiness. Happiness is the drug by which humans behave stupidly.
A true Buddhist has eliminated the happiness of his life and does not cloud his vision. He does the things he must do, why they should do it, not because they make him "happy."
If you want to have “right” to happiness, I must tell you that it is equivalent to having “right” to be reborn in hell.
You will see.
While you have tried to mix dhamma with your post, most of the points don’t correlate.
Serotonin is merely a neurotransmitter and does not equal happiness and it is misleading to say this. Anyone who has observed the effects of SSRIs will tell you this. Also more serotonin is not better as this leads to a life threatening condition (although this cannot be achieved without medical intervention)-serotonin syndrome
Most of the other things you say just have no basis either in science or the dhamma and condemning people to hell contradicts the guidelines of this forum ‘threatening users with kammic retribution’. Please refrain from this.
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