About gay relationship

I am not gay , lgbtqi etc . Just want to understand how Buddha took on this .
What do ebt says about gay relationship and marriage ? Do Buddhism allows or opposing to it ? Can they get ordain ?

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Ajahn Brahm answers this one for you.

TLDR; there is nothing in the suttas about same-sex relationships.
They talk about celibacy and monogamy.
The precept about sexual misconduct refers to people who are protected. ie married, in a relationship, in a position of less power (ie disabled, an employee, a child).
There are no questions about sexuality in the ordination ceremony. There are questions about gender.

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Could you elaborate ?

I wonder while Buddha was alive , is there any lgbtq in the Buddha’s monastic sangha ever ?

TLDR stands for Too Long Didn’t Read… or in your case the video was’ too long didn’t watch’. :slight_smile:
I put some notes under the heading TLDR in case you didn’t have time/bandwidth to watch the video.

As far as I know there’s nothing in the suttas. There are vinaya rules which seem to be about sex relationships. Statistically, it’s very likely there were people who were LGTBQI.

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So , what was Buddha words on sexual relationship between same sex ? Bisexual etc ?
Any sutta to support your statements on statistics ?

The statistics I was referring to was the prevelance in society for sexual diversity. You can find out more about it here.

As for vinaya. I’m not very familiar with the monks vinaya but I was lead to believe that Sanghadisesa 12 refers to inappropriate relationships within the bhikkhuni sangha. Only inappropriate as the Sangha are meant to be celibate. For monks rules I would check the sanghadisesa 1 which probably covers all acts not covered in the parajikas.

I am willing to be corrected on SS12!

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@Pasanna
I was hoping you or someone could give an answer for my questions .

  1. Whether same sex or bisexual relationship allows in Buddhism ?
  2. Whether Buddha allows same sex marriage ?
  3. Can lgbtqi allows to get ordain ?
  4. Is there any bad consequences from kamma perspective on same sex relationship or sexual relationship ?

I already answered these to the best of my ability but let’s try again.

There is nowhere in the Suttas that it is disallowed. Between monastics it is disallowed.

There is no mention of same sex marriage in the suttas. The buddha only advised on being loyal to your partner.

Yes. Monastics are not questioned about their sexuality when being ordained.

Only if you are cheating on a partner or taking advantage of someone.

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So , never mentioned for lays does not mean it is permitted ?

May I know this is based on what texts ?
That same gender sexual intimacy does not cause bad kamma ?

As long as the relationship doesn’t break the 3rd Precept, it is allowed by Buddhism.

There is no ban on any sexual orientations in Buddhism. The EBT’s don’t discuss it likely because sexual relationships no matter who is involved are still awash in sensual defilement thus aren’t conducive to focused practice. As laypeople, that is simply our cross to bear (;-)) until the conditions are there for us to ordain or otherwise find freedom from desire as well as the other Poisons.

Buddhism is different from other paths in that it doesn’t have commandment for its followers outside some simple common-sense suggestions to avoid conflicts, instability and distractions from our practice.

I hope this helps.

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We can understand this from the five precepts- the third precept is about not having sex with a married spouse of another (and other categories mentioned above). It promotes marital relationships, monogamous or even polygamous actually (as was seen in ancient India, at the time), but not extramarital sex; though it doesn’t say anything about extramarital (non-sexual) relationships.

He avoids unlawful sexual intercourse, abstains from it. He has no intercourse with girls who are still under the protection of father or mother, brother, sister, or relative; nor with married women, nor female convicts; nor lastly with betrothed girls. [sutta?]

So he has gone into some detail about who one should not have sex with- if the Buddha had the slightest intention to include gay marriage/sex he would have done so -incidentally incest is also mentioned.

True- there is however one bhikkhu who was drawn to the Buddha’s appearance, and the Buddha admonishes him for staring at him for too long :laughing: :star_struck: who knows…It seems unlikely there was no one.

with metta

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I supposed the 3rd precept for lays wasn’t prepared for same gender sexual relationship or bisexual to uphold .
It’s outside the boundary of the norm .
Therefore , I doubt that any definite answer is possible .
But , I guess if we take the monks/nuns vinaya as a reference or guidance , I don’t think Buddha would allow . That is my opinion only .

To me, it is a simple issue. Being gay, straight, LGBTQ, or whichever healthy orientation one identifies with, so long as the practice and relationship does not involve harm to oneself or others, and the relationship is skillful and wise, then the Dhamma would encourage such a relationship.

The Dhamma should be a bright beacon of light that stands above any archaic notions of sexual “norm,” and above any discrimination toward any person of any sexual orientation. For me, this is the beauty of the Dhamma. Unbounded by social norms, or rigid expectations, the Dhamma asks only that we act skillfully, ethically, wisely and compassionately in our lives. The Dhamma frees us from unhealthy judgments, and expects us to make judgments based on these wise and ethical parameters.

I believe that the Dhamma does allow for very definite answers: that all people, regardless of orientation, are welcomed, treasured, and respected in the Dhamma.

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Allow me to clarify , I am not being discriminatory . Just trying to understand whether beyond norm situation (sexual activities) could cause unwholesome consequences , i.e. result in rebirth in 3 lower realms .

@Raaj, respectfully, what “norm” are you describing?

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As described by the Buddha , for lays between male/female sexual intimacy activities .
Not other than that .
Sorry for saying , I can’t imagine the normalcy between same gender having sexual activities .

It’s actually Mahayana that has the issues here with sex & gender minorities, not the dispensation of the EBTs.

The Kumarajiva Lotus Sutra, for instance, mandates that bodhisattvas avoid “5 varieties of unmanly men”. The Nepalese Lotus Sutra (a newer recension from the 12th century) is even more radical, instructing bodhisattvas to not teach unmanly men the dharma, as they cannot hear it.

Some call this “Mahayana machismo”.

@Raaj, I am not aware of any directions as to “lays” and sexual intimacy. I think now only of his directions to householders and the ethical roles of husbands and wives. By these talks, I do not infer or suggest that he was excluding other relationships. He was teaching lay householders, in the context of a specific question in that Sutta.

Of course this is normal. Just as it’s normal to have blue eyes, or brown eyes. Once we’ve decided that brown eyes are OK, and blue eyes not OK, we have deviated from the Dhamma, from modern science, from biology and psychology, and from common sense ethics.

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I don’t specifically belongs to Mahayana or any group . I am not concerned with gender equality or alike . What I am enquiring is that , same gender sexual activities will produce unwholesome result and being born in 3 lower realms .

Forgive me , would you say a male dog having sex with a male dog is considered normal ?! Or any other animals .