I’d have to ask the dog, and decide based on his response.
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You may say what you wish .
Anyway , thanks for everyone .
As I said , I am trying to understand from the dhamma and vinaya . Not from myself or anyone .
@Raaj, my friend, to be serious, I think that’s at the heart of the question. Being SLGBTQ is completely OK. Being harmful in a relationship is not. From the Vinaya point of view, sexual congress is not OK when in robes. But, one can be ordained, be they SLGBTQ, so long as they maintain celibacy.
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Thanks everyone on this topic .
Nvm if our understanding is different .
Here is a more direct response based on the above.
Aversion to sex and gender minorities in the Buddhadhamma is a Mahayana innovation. Like Tathagatagarbha or non-duality between samsara and nirvana.
You are welcome to accept any and all of such dhamma innovations, but you should be honest about what you are accepting: Mahayana interpretations. Not EBT dhamma.
It’s not a matter of “understanding” differently. You are wondering about Mahayana innovations, such as the belief that sex and gender minorities are the way they are on account of specifically negative karma. And that they accrue further negative karma for their unusual actions. This is strictly Mahayana dharma. You will never hear the Buddha of the EBTs say anything like the above.
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The Buddha seems to have thought that everybody should strive to refrain from sensual desire and pleasure of all kinds.
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn13
For what it’s worth, many other animals besides human beings have been observed engaging in various kinds of homosexual behavior. Among primates, it seems to be very common.
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Do you mind if I ask this question !?
What would Buddha say on incest ?
Is this also normal ? Among animals no differentiation when they are mating .
Thank you for stating this so beautifully.
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@Stacey, thanks, but so much of what I have to say stems from having the shoulders of giants like Vens. Brahm, Sujato, Brahmali, Chah, Khema, and more recently, the examples of Ayyas Vimala and Gunasari, to stand on, to see this Dhamma and to understand it, and to appreciate the way the Dhamma is expressed in the world. 
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You are free to guess . As I know , among the Theravada monks they have different views also . I am not in any kind of arguments with anyone . If anyone unhappy with what is being asked here , I can’t do much . If anyone wants to attack on me , you may do so as you wish .
Well , at the most I will just exit this forum .
Not a big deal .
Most animals don’t have sex with their sisters and brothers because it produces defective and sickly offspring.
It’s not really a guess tho. Where are the EBTs that teach aversion to sex & gender minorities? They don’t exist. Where are the Mahayana texts that teach aversion to sex & gender minorities? They are considerably less hard to find, by virtue of them existing at all, unlike the aforementioned theoretical EBTs, which don’t exist.
No one is attacking you. You are just being told what body of literature teaches what. As per Theravadins holding such beliefs, it would not be the first time Mahayana has influenced contemporary & historical “Theravada”.
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I can sense harsh attitude and cynical .
Kindness and compassion is not seen in this forum . This forum has a problem .
Anyway thank you and good bye.
No one can control what you feel but you. Goodbye, I suppose?
@Raaj, I’m sorry none of are saying what you seem to need to hear, as many people have answered and none of the answers you seem to be quite right for you. Firstly the Buddha’s teaching is not concerned with what is ‘normal’ but rather what gives rise to craving, aversion and delusion, because that is what determines whether one realizes nibbana. Sex gives rise to those things, so ultimately celibacy is essential when practicing to for non-returnership (before that, it would definitely be helpful, not essential, except in the case of monasticism or retreat settings). Having said that you could argue using money also gives rise to these things. What is less important is the type of currency used. Just because the entire world uses paper and metal money, it doesn’t mean bitcoin should be outlawed. You are thinking of what is normal, but there are some animal species who have more than two sexual genders- they have three. Asexual reproduction has been around possibly longer than sexual reproduction. At one point, sexual reproduction, wouldnt have been normal.
Every country should have a mix of races and religions for example. Is it normal to have only one of them- no- that is an artificially created situation- better to learn how to accept that some people are different and sometimes in ways we cannot always understand. We must learn to live with diversity, and learn about what is new while getting know a few people we’re trying to understand- you will find they have the same issues, challenges and strengths like any other person.
They are valuable members of society. They maybe doctors or nurses, or any other occupation for that matter. They may be helping you and your children, without you knowing about it. Its such a basic drive that it wont be a learnt behaviour. There’s some evidence that it is a biological change.
with metta
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I feel no harshness towards you or your question and am happy to try and have this discussion if you like.
I’m just not sure how else anyone can explain this.
You’ve stated your opinion, which I don’t think anyone has argued against as we all have a right to our own thoughts and ideas.
Sensual behaviour regardless of the types of bodies involved will distract a being from the path to freedom. Whatever impermanent, unsatisfying, and not-Self bodies we have isn’t the issue so much as becoming attached to desire or aversion by being blinded by the ignorance that clouds all being’s minds.
male-male, female-female, male-female, male-male-female, female-female-female, whatever iteration a sensual relationship takes isn’t as important as developing our practice so that there is eventual freedom.
I’m not sure what incest has to do with sexual orientation, but it is considered to be biologically a bad idea depending on the species and situation. Normally humans don’t support it because it has a great potential to create instability.
I hope this helps even a little.
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There are several passages in the EBTs that speak of incest. It’s clear from those passages that it was regarded as a bad thing.
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@sujato
Ajahn ,
Since you are the head running this forum , I am complaining it straight to you . I was moderated previously based on assumption . Nvm it . But , now while merely asking questions(on above topic) , I was attacked and bullied . I didn’t see they get moderated . The way I see , this forum lacking of kindness , compassion and fairness , this forum having some problems .
I am really disappointed and saddened by all of this . If you also find nothing wrong with this happening , then so be it .
Best regards .
Sorry Raaj, I have reviewed all the responses above, and nowhere has anyone attacked or bullied you. People have expressed their opinions in kind and reasonable manners, and I am proud of the standard of conversation on this matter.
And, just so you understand, I run the overall forum, but the moderators and their decisions are independent. I would ask you to take up any further questions with them, as they have my full support.
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Hi @Raaj
As a moderator I have been keeping an eye on this thread since the beginning. That’s why I was first to comment. I can’t see anything problematic, but you are welcome to pm me with quotes you feel are against our community guidelines. Be sure to include one of the other mods too in the message as we all volunteer over different timezones.
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