Additional question about the defilements related to samādhi

[BethL]

Decided to make this a new Q&A.

Ajahn Brahmali answered:

@Brahmali

If they still experience defilements, they have not actually achieved jhāna. They need to deepen their samādhi further.

But yes, to deepen the samādhi they may need to overcome defilements.

From the suttas:

The defilements of sensuality, desire to be reborn, and ignorance

When sitting on the cushion (or ), moving from sāti toward something else. Is it samatha? Or is it samādhi? I understand the Buddha provides plenty of notes about how the first jhana is experienced.

If we assume one has moved past the hindrances, should they be checking for the presence of defilements at that moment? Or is it more about recognizing their presence off the cushion and working with them that way?

In a related question, is it likely a mood stabilizer would mute things to the extent that it’s not even possible to discern the first jhana.

Thank you

[Dogen]

@BethL

a mood stabilizer

What sort of thing are we talking about? Prescription drugs or so?

If that’s the case @jansen is at the intersection of mental health & dhamma, he should be able to give a healthy answer.

[BethL]

@Dogen

What sort of thing are we talking about

Serotonin reuptake inhibitor. I’ve always been curious about this. Secondary to my first question but still relates to discernment of the first jhāna.

[Brahmali]

@BethL

When sitting on the cushion (or ), moving from sāti toward something else. Is it samatha? Or is it samādhi?

You don’t move from sati (mindfulness), you bring it with you and develop it further as you move to samatha and samādhi. Samādhi, especially, is a heightened state of sati.

Samatha is a general word for calm, and as such it is a quite broad and relative word. Samādhi is defined as a one-pointed mind (cittassa ekaggatā), or an undistracted mind (avikkhittacitta). And so samādhi is when you stay with object of your awareness without wavering. This can take a number of forms, but the one that truly matters as far as the eightfold path is concerned is jhāna, otherwise known as sammāsamādhi, “right stillness”.

@BethL

If we assume one has moved past the hindrances, should they be checking for the presence of defilements at that moment?

The only way you will know that the hindrances are gone is after jhāna. This is the so because the hindrances can be so refined that you will not be able to recognise them. You will only fully understand them through their absence, which happens after jhāna.

Once you have attained jhāna, you will normally direct the mind towards insight. This is where the defilements are overcome once and for all.

@BethL

Or is it more about recognizing their presence off the cushion and working with them that way?

Indeed. This is in large part what right effort is about, that is, keeping the defilements at bay and gradually reducing their overall impact. This will be the most important contribution that helps you deepen your meditation over time.

@BethL

In a related question, is it likely a mood stabilizer would mute things to the extent that it’s not even possible to discern the first jhana.

Well, the first jhāna has certain characteristics. If you haven’t experienced those, then you haven’t attained the first jhāna. And so I would say the answer is no.