AI-7: The Lords of AI

[sujato]

Whenever you think you’ve plumbed the depths with these guys, somehow there’s always deeper to go. One of their fantasies is building actual cities to manifest their ideologies.

Seems like more people should be talking about how a libertarian charter city startup funded by Sam Altman, Marc Andreessen, and Peter Thiel is trying to bankrupt Honduras.

Próspera is suing the govt for ⅔ of its annual state budget. An op-ed in Foreign Policy states that the suit’s success “would simply render the country bankrupt.”

Silicon Valley billionaires are backing a project that is trying to bankrupt a poor country for reneging on a deal struck with people who have been indicted on corruption, drug trafficking, and weapons charges.

https://x.com/GarrisonLovely/status/1831104024612896795

Investors also include Balaji Srinivasan.

The Tech Baron Seeking to Purge San Francisco of “Blues”

@sujato

He supported Trump until he found out that what every sane person was saying all along was true

After saying, per the above article re Trump:

It was crazier than I thought. It was more dangerous than I thought. They couldn’t get the most basic pieces of the government to work.

Thiel is now back supporting Trump, as he gave $15 million to his former employee, JD Vance, Trump’s VP pick. There’s a nice article on this “New Right” from Vanity Fair:

Inside the New Right, Where Peter Thiel Is Placing His Biggest Bets

[sujato]

@sujato

I don’t believe Musk’s ridiculous projections

For those keeping track, here’s the latest update on Musk’s plans.

In true Musk style, this latest report came in the form of a response to a post by billionaire Bill Ackman on a new campaign by Trumpists to “Make America Healthy Again”. This is an “I’m not an anti-vaxxer but” campaign led by JFK jr. acolyte, the billionaire conspiracist Nicole Shanahan, who, by chance I guess, is said to be one of Musk’s exes. Her Wikipedia page is a wild example of how apparently intelligent and talented people get lost in a mire of conspiracy and madness.

But to briefly respond to Musk’s post:

• “Making life multiplanetary” is not “fundamentally a cost per ton to Mars problem”. It’s a question of desire: what do we want? Humanity is not economics.
• Obviously his projections are nonsense. But it doesn’t mean they’re not dangerous. Every Starship launch is a disaster for all of us.
• Building a self-sustaining city on Mars is impossible, but trying to do it will certainly massively harm life on earth and accelerate climate chaos. Never forget, though, no matter what extremes of damage the likes of Musk do to the earth, even in the worst case scenario, it’ll still be better here than it is on Mars.
• “eggs, literally and metabollically”. eww.

[BethL]

@sujato

There’s a nice article on this “New Right” from Vanity Fair

Thank you for the drip-drip-drip reminders to keep going down this rabbit hole every now and then. It’s all happening in front of our eyes but it’s so convoluted that the average global citizen has neither the time nor the energy to synthesize it. It’s sneaky that way.

I forced myself to sift through A brief explanation of the cathedral to understand what this bloke Curtis Yarvin is up to.

Which led to this recent article in The New Republic Where J.D. Vance Gets His Weird, Terrifying Techno-Authoritarian Ideas

In 2008, a software developer in San Francisco named Curtis Yarvin, writing under a pseudonym, proposed a horrific solution for people he deemed “not productive”: “convert them into biodiesel, which can help power the Muni buses.”

Yarvin, a self-described reactionary and extremist who was 35 years old at the time, clarified that he was “just kidding.” But then he continued, “The trouble with the biodiesel solution is that no one would want to live in a city whose public transportation was fueled, even just partly, by the distilled remains of its late underclass. However, it helps us describe the problem we are trying to solve. Our goal, in short, is a humane alternative to genocide. ”

Yarvin makes a big stink about it on his website, on several grounds. Still, in a subsequent blog response, he doesn’t deny this from the article:

He then concluded that the “best humane alternative to genocide” is to “virtualize” these people: Imprison them in “permanent solitary confinement” where, to avoid making them insane, they would be connected to an “immersive virtual-reality interface” so they could “experience a rich, fulfilling life in a completely imaginary world.”

To be fair, in Yarvin’s defense, in the blog response he pushes back on the idea that he’s directly influencing the Republican Party in the US.

Yet he doesn’t deny such morbid ideas, casting them as a kind of compassionate response:

Yes, Gil, as you see—my policy for the “homeless,” or whatever we are being ordered to call them these days, is a safe space where they cannot harm themselves or others, and their existence is physically and mentally healthy. Which, to be fair, you report!

He further pontificates by name-dropping

my good friend Jared Klickstein. If Jared looks a little funny , it’s because he chewed his whole lower lip off in a meth binge. Plastic surgery is amazing.

So, by extension, because meth addiction is awful (which it is) and likely untreatable, we should herd entire populations of people into virtual reality-induced numbness.

I get it… the Severe Right is a righteous reaction to the “selective advantage of dominant ideas” (per his cathedral blog). It is even compassionate, in the most morbid way.

And a return to a tech industry-enabled monarchy is the answer. Because that will give rise to dissident voices which are (1) in the tech industry and (2) really care the most, at the end of the day. Because, after all, they are dissidents (and in the tech industry).

Can’t make this stuff up.

@sujato

Every Starship launch is a disaster for all of us.

Which isn’t helped by this recent development:

NASA announced Saturday that it will use SpaceX’s Dragon capsule to bring home two astronauts stuck in space for months, because the agency does not have confidence in Boeing’s troubled Starliner capsule.

Unfortunately this is more grist for Yarvin’s mill. It’s kind of a Faustian bargain for NASA.

[yeshe.tenley]

@BethL

Which isn’t helped by this recent development:

NASA announced Saturday that it will use SpaceX’s Dragon capsule to bring home two astronauts stuck in space for months, because the agency does not have confidence in Boeing’s troubled Starliner capsule.

Unfortunately this is more grist for Yarvin’s mill. It’s kind of a Faustian bargain for NASA.

How is this related? Are you suggesting that the NASA astronauts should have come home in the Boeing vehicle even if that upped the risk they’d die in a fiery crash if the heat shield failed?

Have we moved on from demonizing AI to demonizing NASA and all space travel or is it just SpaceX? Should NASA decline to use SpaceX vehicles because it is affiliated with Musk even if SpaceX rockets are cheaper or better for the environment than the alternative?

[BethL]

@yeshe.tenley

How is this related? Are you suggesting that the NASA astronauts should have come home in the Boeing vehicle

NASA sent up the Starliner capsule when, from the evidence, they shouldn’t have. Did the availability of the SpaceX Dragon as a contingency enter into their risk-based decision-making?

It’s hard for me to fathom that they didn’t play out this scenario before launching. As such, I have to think there were discussions behind the scenes for months with SpaceX about using the Dragon as a contingency.

In this case, there’s already substantial effort at NASA to partner with SpaceX. Elon Musk gets the kudos he so craves and enhances his Mars project. NASA gets to say they’re on schedule.

@yeshe.tenley

Have we moved on from demonizing AI to demonizing NASA and all space travel or is it just SpaceX?

I haven’t seen demonizing of all space travel; I haven’t seen advocacy of it either. SpaceX is the outlier (if you consider Japan, India, and China, for example). Elon Musk is the one who is hell-bent on getting to Mars at all cost. And he can afford it directly as well as through influence.

@yeshe.tenley

Have we moved on from demonizing AI to demonizing NASA and all space travel or is it just SpaceX?

This begs the question: What is the purpose of space travel at this point in time in our global situation? I don’t have a definite answer for that. Does star wars enter into it? Otherwise it seems less and less relevant unless it bears directly on solving climate crisis.

[yeshe.tenley]

@BethL

NASA sent up the Starliner capsule when, from the evidence, they shouldn’t have.

What evidence do you have that NASA had prior knowledge of failure of the Boeing vehicle? The problem was discovered in flight as far as I’m aware. Are you just saying that in hindsight NASA shouldn’t have gone with the Boeing vehicle?

@BethL

It’s hard for me to fathom that they didn’t play out this scenario before launching. As such, I have to think there were discussions behind the scenes for months with SpaceX about using the Dragon as a contingency.

So you’re suggesting that NASA purposefully put the astronauts at risk so that they could enable SpaceX to come in and proverbially save the day? This sounds like conspiratorial thinking. What evidence do you have that this is the case?

@BethL

In this case, there’s already substantial effort at NASA to partner with SpaceX.

Yes. SpaceX rockets are phenomenal in terms of cost, reliability and reusability. They’ve brought down the total amount of fuel needed to launch mass into space. Are you saying that NASA should not use the most cost effective, efficient and reliable rockets because… Musk?

@BethL

This begs the question: What is the purpose of space travel at this point in time in our global situation?

Scientific exploration, GPS, the global communication system, earth observation satellites that are used to study and understand climate change, internet service for many in underdeveloped world, space exploration, world wide financial system that depends upon GPS, the James Webb space telescope, basically very foundational technologies that you’re using to communicate on this website.

Consider MethaneSat which was launched into space on SpaceX rockets and uses AI. SpaceX + AI = double whammy boogeyman, but it is fighting climate change so… not so boogeyman??

[sujato]

@yeshe.tenley

NASA should not use the most cost effective, efficient and reliable rockets because… Musk?

100% yes. Musk is an imminent and critical threat to national security, and NASA should refuse to do business with SpaceX until he is removed.

[Khemarato.bhikkhu]

@sujato

critical threat to national security, and NASA should refuse

Sadly, the Pentagon’s reaction to SpaceX holding Starlink hostage in Ukraine was to… pay the ransom … and then expand their deal!

[yeshe.tenley]

@sujato

100% yes. Musk is an imminent and critical threat to national security, and NASA should refuse to do business with SpaceX until he is removed.

So you’d risk the astronauts coming back to a fiery death as they burn up upon re-entering earth’s atmosphere to stick it to Musk? And not because of “AI” or “tech” but because of national security?

If Elon Musk is a genuine threat to US national security there are other ways of dealing with that then a government boycotting a company that is formed, operated, and governed according to that sovereign government’s laws just because a single person is the absentee CEO of that company.

The world and its problems are complex and such black and white reactions such as banning usage of SpaceX rockets by NASA because of the disturbing actions/speech of its mostly absentee CEO might seem satisfying, but they will not fix any genuine problems and will likely make things worse.

Condemning the astronauts to increased risk of fiery death isn’t going to increase US national security even if it would stick it to “the man.” Launching MethaneSAT with more pollution, more cost and less reliability because of Musk brings to mind the idiom of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[sujato]

@yeshe.tenley

So you’d risk the astronauts coming back to a fiery death

Of course not. I wasn’t talking about that, you and Beth were.

Character matters. This is Musk’s character.

In the last days, he has promoted the “Haitians are eating your pets” lie, a lie that was started by a leading figure in the Blood Tribe Nazi movement.

Drake Berentz of Ohio Identified as Blood Tribe Neo-Nazi “Nate Higgers” –...

From a Nazi mind straight to a presidential candidate’s lips, all helped along by Musk.

Then he just popped up with this creepy threat:

On which his daughter said:

One good thing about Musk, though, is that he is very clear in telling us how to stop him. This is how he responds to environmental restrictions:

Great, thanks for the tip! Like I keep saying: we are in control of our destiny. We, the people, fought and bled for centuries so that we would have democracy, precisely so that we are not subject to the whims of the rich and powerful. When the Nazi billionaires tell us that government regulations are getting in the way of their evil plans, excellent, let’s do more.

Today, he called my government “fascists” for introducing legislation that would impose up to 5% fine on internet platforms who spread misinformation online. Congratulations to the Australian Government!

This is really important. These people run global businesses, and it is up to all people, not just the US, to stand up to them. Musk and his ilk are pouring Nazi lies and other heinous evil into our nations, into the minds of our people, into the hearts of your neighbours, your family, and we have a say in that. So many people think, “oh well, what can we do?” as if the world and the internet were just somehow out of our control. But this shows that this is not the case. They can only do business in our country with the consent of our government and following the laws that we, the people, elect our government to implement.

Musk is actively promoting actual Nazis while name-calling our milquetoast centre-left government “fascists” for requiring a modicum of adult behavior. He is unfit for any role of strategic importance and to enable him is to invite calamity.

[Snowbird]

Neither Elon Musk Nor Anybody Else Will Ever Colonize Mars | Defector

None of what’s in the preceding 38 or however many exhausting paragraphs is unknown to Elon Musk, the mega-rich clod and dullard famous for buying things for more than they’re worth and then making them worse, who tweeted over the weekend some silly shit about his Martian colony, ah—what even is the word here? Plan? Vision? Intention? Anyway this is a thing that he thinks must and can and will happen. He sees his SpaceX company’s work as part of the endeavor to colonize Mars someday.

CW: name calling, obviously

[yeshe.tenley]

@yeshe.tenley

So you’d risk the astronauts coming back to a fiery death

@sujato

Of course not. I wasn’t talking about that, you and Beth were.

Refusing to do business with SpaceX would leave the astronauts stranded in space or consign them to return on Boeing’s troubled ship and risk a fiery death. That was part of the context of the conversation you were responding to.

SpaceX is not Elon Musk. Elon Musk is not SpaceX. You would have the United States government boycott SpaceX because of the myriad faults you find with the absentee CEO of that company even if that would result in more pollution via less efficient rockets shuttling mass from earth to space.

As I said, Launching MethaneSAT with more pollution, more cost and less reliability because of Musk brings to mind the idiom of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Elon Musk’s promotion of terrible conspiracy theories, misinformation and fomentation of hate against immigrants is not a justifiable reason to boycott SpaceX and will do nothing to mitigate the harm caused by his lamentable actions nor prevent him from doing any of that in the future.

[Khemarato.bhikkhu]

@yeshe.tenley

terrible conspiracy theories, misinformation and fomentation of hate against immigrants is not a justifiable reason to boycott SpaceX

Really?? What, then, would be reasonable grounds for a boycott?

@yeshe.tenley

nor prevent him from doing any of that in the future.

Really? I’m pretty sure if the government stopped shoveling billions of dollars into Musk’s pockets his ability to e.g. foment hate against (other) immigrants would be seriously curtailed. Remember that he bought Twitter largely based on loans collateralized against his shares in government-funded enterprises (i.e. Tesla and SpaceX)

[sujato]

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

he bought Twitter largely based on loans collateralized against his shares in government-funded enterprises

Well, to be fair, he did get private funding as well.

Putin’s henchmen helped Musk to acquire Twitter - reports

[Quidam]

@sujato

Today, he called my government “fascists” for introducing legislation that would impose up to 5% fine on internet platforms who spread misinformation online. Congratulations to the Australian Government!

Who, in a corrupt world, decides what ‘misinformation’ is tho? The person who lobbies hardest with the most funding?

Honestly, as much as I at what I perceive as misinformation, this sounds scary to me because fascists take control of minds by controlling and policing information. In many instances I would not want an arbiter telling everyone else that their version of truth was the only narrative acceptable. I’d prefer the debate.

I spent a good decade or so ‘dumpster diving’ on politics and the result was that I have now racked up a few hundred dollars in ‘failure to vote’ fines and don’t bother looking much anymore. Same - different bucket imo. I was a life long left voter before that. Now I can’t vote for them, nor bring myself to vote for the other side either.

I look at separate issues on a case by case basis, don’t align myself with either side, don’t make blanket judgements on either side ( I find the avg voter much more nuanced than to wrap them up in neatly labelled boxes) and basically think left and right are as bad as each other, just in different ways, on the whole. They ultimately have the same ‘masters’ imo.

[sujato]

I understand it is easy to be disillusioned by politics. But at least we can stand by one thing: those who are trying to stop Nazis are better than those who are Nazis.

I’m not sure what life is like in your country, but here in Australia, for all its faults, we are a liberal democracy in which we can discuss what is wrong with our government. You know where you cannot discuss that? When your government is Nazis.

[Quidam]

@sujato

I understand it is easy to be disillusioned by politics. But at least we can stand by one thing: those who are trying to stop Nazis are better than those who are Nazis.

That I’ll agree with

I live in country Vic - not too far from NBM actually. I’m grateful that I don’t really notice a lot of difference in living conditions regardless of who is in power here.

[sujato]

Ha ha, well hi fellow aussie!

I agree that for the average punter it’s true that in most things there isn’t a whole lot of daylight between the parties when it comes to issues that affect them. But I would hope that as spiritual practitioners we can also consider that our vote is not just for us, but for those who are vulnerable and in need. And that includes the environment, living creatures other than human, and future generations.

[BethL]

@yeshe.tenley

Are you suggesting that the NASA astronauts should have come home in the Boeing vehicle even if that upped the risk they’d die in a fiery crash if the heat shield failed?

This is a false scenario – I explained that.

When I let my teenage daughter take the car out Saturday night, if it develops mechanical issues, I’m going to force her to drive it home because the only other alternative is for creepy teenager Mark to drive her home in his own car.

Um, no, that’s not an acceptable risk scenario. So, because she means more to me than anything in the world, I’m not going to let her take the car out – not until either (1) I’m 99% certain the car won’t have mechanical issues or (2) I know there’s another alternative besides creepy teenager Mark.

Because I can’t meet the first condition (I’m a single working mom who can’t afford a new car), I wait until the second condition is in place. If NASA can’t meet the first condition, either they need to throw more resources at getting to 99% or they should wait until someone other than creepy Mark is available.

Ven. @Khemarato.bhikkhu references the disproportionate influence SpaceX has in Ukraine during a war for its very survival. Bhante calls out the influence of Elon Musk in amplifying the dark rhetoric of a Nazi.

You persist in giving Elon Musk an out by calling him the absent CEO. I really don’t know how this satisfies the deeply disturbing moral depravity he continues to promote at every turn. Just look at what his own daughter says about him.

[yeshe.tenley]

The Boeing vehicle developed an issue in flight and it was not possible to discern the problem before. The situation right now is those astronauts have three choices:

1. Remain in space indefinitely
2. Take a SpaceX ride back months ahead
3. Wait for Boeing to fix the problem

It isn’t a false scenario. It is the real time scenario that is playing out right now.

---

You are right that I continue to assert that:

• SpaceX is not Elon Musk
• Elon Musk is not SpaceX
• The world is complex
• Rarely is black and white reactionary thinking anything other than self-destructive
• Fostering enmity risks enmity spreading according to such black and white reactionary thinking
• A sovereign government has much more useful avenues to address actual national security issues than a boycott of a company that is formed, run, and governed according to that sovereign governments own laws
• Calling for a boycott by NASA of SpaceX rockets and then citing Elon Musk’s lamentable speech towards immigrants as justification will not solve a single real world problem other than perhaps making those calling for said boycott feel like they are doing something to solve a real world problem when in fact it does nothing of the sort and is actually potentially self-destructive with myriad complex knock on consequences that haven’t been given even a cursory rational examination of potential net benefits and harms
• Conflating the lamentable actions of Elon Musk fomenting hatred towards immigrant communities with whether SpaceX should be used to ferry astronauts into space is an example of such black and white reactionary thinking that spreads through enmity and is self-destructive
• The same is true for his other many lamentable actions and speech
• It is perfectly possible to acknowledge all the lamentable actions and speech of the flawed human being known as Elon Musk without giving in to enmity and black and white reactionary thinking and it is worthwhile to do so