Ajahn Geoff, Phenomenology, and perspectives on the Pali Canon

[Dogen]

@Erika_ODonnell

It’s a little unclear to me how people are using the words “ontology” and “phenomenology” though, because it’s not a contradiction to have a “phenomenological ontology

For the purposes of most Buddhist discussions, I agree it sounds like a distinction without a difference.

Some do make a difference between “What we experience” and “The way things exist” in a certain fashion though…

@Erika_ODonnell

and also, if you say there is such a thing as non-khandic consciousness, then that is (afaik) an ontology – i.e, enumerating a thing that (really) exists in reality.

Hm. Well it should depend on the register — for example, in the poetic register, I can talk about the “taste of freedom”, without really implying that freedom is something I feel with the contact of my tongue.

So, since Bhante Thanissaro is being discussed here, his remarks about pure consciousness or mind or nibbāna should be supplemented with his broader views, which is:

So the truth of the Dhamma is not something that’s defined in words… Nibbana—which is the ending of all dhammas, including all words and all views—is touched at the heart. Dhamma is a Quality of the Heart

And:

The Buddha never says that we have to drop concepts from the very beginning. He says you use concepts to get beyond concepts. Meditations 4

@Erika_ODonnell

impermanence, suffering, and non-self is better described as a negative ontology.

Taking the chance to talk about anicca, I think there’s actually an epistemologic reading that’s possible.

So for example, if I can’t even see what’s outside my house, can I say if there’s a rain or not?

So, an epistemic reading would suggest that, with their tricksy, unstable nature, we can’t even talk about khandas to begin with, let alone contemplate “me, mine, I”.

Of course, not all Theravadins hold this view of the khandas, but precisely this idea was explained in the Mahāyāna traditions.

I do think suttas like SN 22.95 do support that view though. As well as the Māyājāla Sūtra, an EBT Sūtra from an unknown Agama school, which many Mahāyāna masters seem to refer to in their works.