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Are arahants (fully emancipated ones) always mindful?


#22

I see you are pointing the satta bohjangga healing the pain, which is part of samma sati

See the pain is seen as dukkha, dukkha can only inflict when there is a being / bhava

To cessation of pain is to end the bhava, thus the 8noblepath is the way

They are arahant in robes which means already samma ditthi … sila … till the , 7th and 8th that are needed to be done continously
So all already in tunes, only need the 7th and 8th ,to cessation of pain, nibbana bliss

There are two types of nibbana experienced by arahant , not parinibbana ,as in sutta SuttaCentral

So nibbana with residue means arahant is exposed to experiencing, but no more tanha borned, the satta bohjangga is the way to nibbana without residue

Hope this answer can help your understanding. Nibbanasa paccayo hotu


#23

I am not claiming arahants have no pain. What is the use od reminding bojjangas, when an arahant is always mindful?


#24

Oh I see you’re asking why arahant sometimes not mindful and needed to be reminded by other arahant.

As I said, there are two types of nibbana experienced by arahants, one without residue and one with residue left

So their conversation are just to remind each other they can switch to the nibbana without residue anytime, to turn off the bhava/becoming/being, out of dukkha, out of space and time… through samma sati which is the bojjangas


#26

Wow! Thanks for the reference. Perhaps Bhante Sujato will translate this one day. :heart:

I am currently studying MN121, in which the Buddha describes his own practice. Because of that, I am inclined to think that the first Nibanna element is:

MN121:12.3: There is only this modicum of stress, namely that associated with the six sense fields dependent on this body and conditioned by life.’

And the second element is:

MN121:13.1: Whatever ascetics and brahmins enter and remain in the pure, ultimate, supreme emptiness—whether in the past, future, or present—all of them enter and remain in this same pure, ultimate, supreme emptiness.


#27

This also first elements

These refer to second element : SuttaCentral

This also SuttaCentral

This also SuttaCentral

And this is from jhanas SN 36.11: Alone (English) - Vedanā Saṃyutta - SuttaCentral

The difference of two nibbana is one has lost the individual experience, no sense of “I”
In neither perception nor non perception still have “I” but it is seen directly like all his defenses already torned off and can directly lead to nibbana

In a way from seeing of Paticca sammupada, the first nibbana element in the link from vedana to tanha broken
For second element, the link from avijja to sankhara broken

But that sutta mn121 also reminds a year ago when it happened , in neither perception nor non perception, cannot find any element of “I”. But that makes life so complicate to go through too because we realize we live in delusion—moha. But still its a residue left nibbana because the sense still there.

People ask about neither perception nor non perception , always answer them in one word : sense. Now that you show this MN 121 makes things lots easier. Thank you


#28

Ahhhhhhh! Thank you for connecting the two suttas I am studying.

I think you are pointing me to the following because there is no observer since there is no perception and feeling for second element:

MN44:17.1: “But ma’am, which cease first for a mendicant who is entering the cessation of perception and feeling: physical, verbal, or mental processes?”
MN44:17.2: “Verbal processes cease first, then physical, then mental.”

Even though arahants do not have the conceit “I am”, there are physical, verbal or mental processes with nibbana first element.

Thank you. :pray:


#29

Yes right. And this sutta also point how to cease from jhanas SN 36.11: Alone (English) - Vedanā Saṃyutta - SuttaCentral

But one can cease also and easier from 8fold noble path, by satipatthana sutta
Thats why Buddha said even in 7days of satipatthana one can achieve at least anagami or arahant


#30

Thinking is what brains do :upside_down_face: