Are Bodhipakkhiyadamma included in Noble Eightfold Path?

Technically, Noble Eightfold Path is a subset of Bodhipkkhiyadhamma.
In greater analysis it appears Noble Eightfold Path is the 37 Bodhipakkhiyadhamma.
Is this a correct reflection?
What Bodhipakkhiyadhamma is not included in Noble Eightfold Path?

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They are both just lists, meant for memorising things. They are not meant to represent some ultimate truth by themselves and thereby it matters which includes which or whether some conceptual paradox exists in the fact that they can include each other etc. They are just simple practical lists.

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It appears it is more than just a list.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.028.than.html

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The ariyamagga can conceivably be argued to contain about everything in the world, so can the iddhipada. Yet some how neither of these, nor the bodhipakkhiyadhamma, include the patticasamupada or the ariyasacca! Many have gone astray from precisely the Truth by overworking their minds in this hair-splitting logicism, never to reach satisfaction. In every Dhamma list there may indeed be something intriguing, even in a mysterious way, but that’s it for me! Try to encompass it with logic and all one ends up doing becomes similar to running after wild chickens and roosters with the hope of getting them to voluntarily run into a prepositioned cage!

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Isn’t Patticasmupda come under second noble truth and Bodhipakkhiya dhamma come under fourth noble truth?

I don’t know what comes under what, friend @SarathW1, all I know is that, however much tempting it may be, it is impossible to get those chickens and roosters into the cage!

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Well said! :grin:
And if I can add to this, very much likely, chickens and roosters just roamed freely and happily in nature before we came up with the cages and the farm! :sweat_smile:

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Well, then you can’t answer my question.
I asked a very specific question and I wish to get a direct answer.
Your method of answering questions is discouraging Dhamma Vicaya.
Back to the topic, please.

Hmmm. It is probably rather that your method of Dhammavicaya is discouraging Dhammavicaya! Your criticism is unfriendly, but I’ll accept it still. I don’t agree with it though.

I have not strayed from the topic. It’s you who did when you decided to evaluate the quality of my responses and methods, which is off-topic. Please make an effort to restrain yourself from asking others to go back to topic when they haven’t gone off-topic.

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Is this genuinely a question you need answer or another of your typical Socratic questions which will eventually point to a topic in another online Buddhist forum?

If it is the former I am unaware of a sutta in which you see the Buddha squeezing all of the 37 qualities conducive to awakening in the noble eightfold path. Let’s see if anyone has ever come across such a thing.

To me, the most relevant reference to the qualities is the one found in DN16:

And what are those Teachings that have, with deep knowledge, been taught by me, which after grasping them well, you should practise, develop, and make a lot of them, so that the Spiritual Life may last long, and may endure for a long time, that will be for the benefit of many people, for the happiness of many people, out of compassion for the world, for the welfare, benefit, and happiness of Divinities and men?

They are as follows:
The Four Ways of Attending to Mindfulness,
the Four Right Strivings,
the Four Paths to Power,
the Five Faculties,
the Five Strengths,
the Seven Factors of Awakening,
the Noble Eight-Fold Path.

If it’s the latter, please do enlighten us all! Maybe one day I will check that other forum. :smiley:

Yes.

When I do not get a satisfactory answer I will post the same question in another forum. If I get a satisfactory answer in another forum I will post it here for the be benefit of the reader. Just for the record, I am not attached to any particular forum. I am here to get answers to my questions.
:slight_smile:

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I am sorry if I came across like that. I understand where you coming from. Many of us are bogged down with categories and not understand the experience. Even if it is the case, there is a wisdom behind the categories. Sometimes it is worth to investigate to find out the reason for this categorization.
We can’t burn the raft before we cross the river!

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@SarathW1 good luck and may you progress toward your goal always.

Along the path you might come across many practitioners whose “Dhamma way” is not in harmony with yours. Take it easy then and remember that their path may be the right one for them, you don’t have to evaluate or pass judgements on them. And if they appear to you to be totally lost, then I’d say the right attitude is that of compassion rather than anger or hate. Just my opinion here.

There is a wonderful popular Sufi proverb which says:

“There are as many ways to Truth, as there are living beings!”

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The 4 noble truths are explicitly contained within right view.

SN 45.8

STED sammā-diṭṭhi

STED right view
“katamā ca, bhikkhave, sammādiṭṭhi? yaṃ kho, bhikkhave,
What **, *********, (is) right-view? *** *** *********
dukkhe ñāṇaṃ,
suffering, knowledge (of)
Dukkha-samudaye ñāṇaṃ,
Suffering’s-origination, knowledge (of)
Dukkha-nirodhe ñāṇaṃ,
suffering’s-cessation, knowledge (of)
Dukkha-nirodha-gāminiyā paṭipadāya ñāṇaṃ —
Suffering’s-cessation-way-of practice, knowledge (of)
ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, sammādiṭṭhi.
this is-called, *****, right-view.

And the 8aam (noble eightfold path) is explicitly contained under the 4th noble truth.

12ps (paticca samuppada) can be seen as a more detailed expansion on teh 2nd noble truth, the the inverse negative version of 12ps that expresses the cessation of dukkha can be seen as an expansion of the 3rd noble truth. I haven’t come across any passage that expicitly makes those connections for 12ps.

But as far as 4NT and 8aam, one could take either of those as the big umbrella that everything else fits under. For 37bp, only saddha and 4ip don’t have explicit connections to 8aam, but saddha can be seen as training wheels fitting under wisdom or right view, and 37bp is basically a commentary on how the 4 aspects of right effort mix with samadhi (chanda, viriya, citta explicity appear under both right effort and 4 iddhi pada).

I suspect 37bp was the original commentary on the 4 noble truths, the Buddha’s commentary. The reason I suspect this is if you examine each of the 37 factors, they often contain the exact stock passage for the 8aam path factors, but with an important detail not in the 8aam factor, such us the difference between samma sati and sati-indriya, and the difference between samadhi-indriya and samma samadhi. As part of the 37bp, for the oral traditions it forms an easy mental map that you can walk in to the room, recite what memorized and reflect on it.

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