It was a complinsult.
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How about Mahayanist-influenced teaching like paramis? Or tradition which is not found in the suttas like pattidana (merit transfer)? This late doctrinal development is also found in nowadays Theravada…
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Or tradition which is not found in the suttas like pattidana (merit transfer)?
We do see this in the suttas:
“Sir, last night I rose at the crack of dawn and recited the verses of ‘The Way to the Beyond’, and then I fell silent. Then the great king Vessavaṇa, knowing I had finished, applauded me, ‘Good, sister! Good, sister!’
I asked: ‘But who might you be, my dear?’
‘Sister, I am your brother Vessavaṇa, the great king.’
‘Good, my dear! Then may my recital of the teaching be my offering to you as my guest.’
‘Good, sister! And let this also be your offering to me as your guest. Tomorrow, the mendicant Saṅgha headed by Sāriputta and Moggallāna will arrive at Veḷukaṇṭa before breakfast. When you’ve served the Saṅgha, please dedicate the religious donation to me. Then that will also be your offering to me as your guest.’
And so, sir, may the merit and the growth of merit in this gift be for the happiness of the great king Vessavaṇa.”
Nandamātā Sutta (AN 7.53)
How about Mahayanist-influenced teaching like paramis?
Or perahps it was Mahāyāna that adopted it.
This can be seen as mere someone ask you to do giving in his/her favor. There is no merit transfer indicated here as in pattidana tradition where the recipient can be only petas.
This is more like you agree that this later development is inherent in Theravada so they are not as pure as it claims to be.
Its a dedication of merit.
This is more like you agree that this later development is inherent in Theravada so they are not as pure as it claims to be.
I said perhaps it was Mahāyāna that adopted it, as in these concepts were already around when Mahāyāna was developing.
Even if they are less reliable, that doesn’t mean they are not worth studying at all!
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I agree. One of the major benefits to come from studying the Agamas is to see how successful the Sangha was in transmitting the Buddha’s core teachings. Putting everything else to the side, as long as we have the core teachings and practicing virtuous monastics then there is still hope for full awakening.
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The following book chapter/article recently published by Choong Mun-keat may be relevant to this discussion:
“Ācāriya Buddhaghosa and Master Yinshun 印順 on the Three- aṅga Structure of Early Buddhist Texts”, Research on the Saṃyukta-āgama (Dharma Drum Institute of Liberal Arts,Research Series 8; edited by Dhammadinnā), Taiwan: Dharma Drum Publishing Corporation, August 2020, pp. 883-932.
https://www.une.edu.au/staff-profiles/hass/mchoong
http://agamaresearch.dila.edu.tw/publications
If you have read this paper, please do tell us your views about Buddhaghosa and Yinshun on the EBTs.
Is there anyway to access it? Have you read it? What is the synopsis?
No, I have not read the publication text yet.
Just a tip on how to make such discussions possible to follow (given that this Forum is a public place and not a private interchange between two people 
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Noted. Will do from now on.
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Thank you. 
Very much appreciated.
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well… I think It’s more reliable if someone can provide this translation for free. As you know even we can provide 4 Nikayas and 6 minors, still, only few people studied it here in Indonesia. What can you expect? 
Maybe this was why the bhikkuni I studied under cautioned us, her students when we hear, listen, read and study the sutras. There seems to be 2 paths which can either lead the student to wrong view or right view. And she emphasized to embark upon study with a ‘right’ view as guide.
Isnt cdpatton doing the translation now !
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Analayo’s SA translation is freely distributed on his publication list page. The MA translation although is copyrighted, it can be downloaded as PDF on BDK website.
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There’s two options:
- Get the copyright first, and make a translation.
- Translate it first for our studies, then ask the copyright later.
Tbh, I often using number 2, especially for canons where alternative translations are difficult to find…
It’s understandable. I’ve not heard that Numata is a litigious group, so as long as you want to take the risk of getting a claim.
As I have said many times before, I do not believe that there should be any copyright on any translations of ancient Buddhist texts. These are our sacred scriptures, and we, the Buddhist community, have always treated them as the Word of the Buddha, not the property of the translator. Copyright claims on our sacred scripture criminalize our traditional practice of freely sharing Dhamma for all. It’s cultural appropriation.
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