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Audtip.org KN Snp: English, V.Than., PL Passed :)


#81

OK, no worries! :slight_smile: Only a relatively minor thing anyway.


#82

Well, english is not my native tongue so I don’t think you should trust me on this! :grin:


#83

Pled Snp 3.6 & 3.7

Snp 3.6: I noted two small differences with the text but they don’t affect the meaning so unless you want to edit them, I think it’s a pass.
At 15:39: ‘He got up from his seat’ instead of ‘got up from his seat’ – I does not seem to change the meaning.
At 16:30: ‘Having ended’ instead of ‘have ended’- It does not seem to change the meaning.

Snp 3.7: Pass - all good!


#84

Yes, let’s pass 3.6. From most of the mistakes I made, it’s really interesting to see how the cognitive process works, the kinds of shortcuts the brain takes to process things, and expecting patterns from the past to continue. “having ended” is my brain anticipating the usual pali pattern in these kind of formulas, like “he approached him, having approached him…”.

And this is why having someone else PL my recordings (instead of me proof listening to my own recording) is helpful. Even if I wait a few months and listen with fresh ears, there’s a good chance my brain will still take the same kind of perceptual short cuts and not catch the mistake.


#85

PLed 3.9 and it’s a pass from me.


#86

PLed 3.10 and all good also.


#87

PLed Snp 3.11 & 3.12

Snp 3.11 Fail
At 06:18 ‘On hearing the word of’ instead of ‘On hearing word of’
At 06:41 ‘Now what I know’ instead of ‘Now that I know’

Snp 3.12 Fail?
At 01:39: “if there are any remnant’ instead of ‘if there be any remnant” - does not really change the meaning but possibly grammatically wrong (are vs remnant)?
At 09:08: I think there is a typo in the original PDF: ‘that stress comes from fabrication’ instead of ‘that stress comes from consciousness’ (p.179)
Original Pali is:
image

So your reading is good but the sense of the paragraph is wrong because of the typo in the text. So maybe you might want to change it?


#88

nice catch on Snp 3.12. looks like an error from cutting and pasting the template from the previous section on “fabrication”. I notified dhammatalks.org of the error.

if anyone ever finds errors in Ven. Thanissaro’s sutta translations or writings, you can notify them via dhammatalks.feedback at their google mail address - gmail.com.

Just because i’m nerdy, I checked the thai pali for that section, looks like the vinnana part matches the burmese pali (if that’s what was in the photo):
[395] Siyā aññenapi pariyāyena .pe. Kathañca siyā

yaṅkiñci dukkhaṃ sambhoti sabbaṃ viññāṇapaccayāti

ayamekānupassanā viññāṇassa tveva asesavirāganirodhā natthi

dukkhassa sambhavoti ayaṃ dutiyānupassanā evaṃ sammādvayatānupassino

.pe. Athāparaṃ etadavoca satthā

yaṅkiñci dukkhaṃ sambhoti sabbaṃ viññāṇapaccayā

viññāṇassa nirodhena natthi dukkhassa sambhavo.

Etamādīnavaṃ ñatvā dukkhaṃ viññāṇapaccayā

viññāṇūpasamā bhikkhu nicchāto parinibbutoti.


#89

I believe it is, I took it from legacy.suttacentral.net.


#90

ok, i’ve fixed the mistakes in 3.11 and 3.12, looks like just one more sutta to go, and we are done. For these small suttas, it takes quite a bit more time working on metadata than to do the actual recording! but people who use it in the future are going to love me, because when you see all that metadata in your mp3 player, it’s essentially having sutta central index with same sutta reference numbers, pali (and english title translations added!) right there, easy for you to find exactly what you’re looking for.

last sutta,
snp3.8, less than 5min long.


#91

Done and… it’s a pass! :slight_smile:

A very timely sutta, I just come out of a small retreat on the topic of death and Snp 3.8 is very relevant indeed.


#92

Well done for completing this recording of the Sutta Nipata @frankk, a valuable resource! :anjal:

Re. metadata do you mean what appears as the title of the file when played (e.g. in VLC etc)? or is there more data that can be extracted by some mp3 players…?


#93

there’s album, “comment”, which contains a hyperlink to the archive.org page the file came from, a few other things. But mainly the time consuming part is just checking the details, matching suttacentral.org reference number, sutta title, making sure sutta numbers are zero padded to the left properly so they sort correctly in media players. In fact about 30% of the files in snp currently I need to go back and zero pad the sutta numbers. Did pad it in the filename, but not in the mp3 metadata. If archive.org lets me do it directly there, then I can probalby do it in less than 30 min. But I don’t trust archive.org to edit the metadata correctly, and I might have to delete and reupload the FLAC and mp3 files, which will take a couple of hours.

I’m sure for suttacentral, this kind of behind the scenes under the hood detail work is far more time consuming and much more massive in scale. We consumers just start a new thread to complain about lack of features, and don’t express enough appreciation for all the anonymous labor that went into what is currently there, much of it probably a result of wageless labor of love by dhamma workers. To all the anonymous dhamma workers behind the scenes, we salute you!

Another day or two, we can declare KN Snp officially done.


#94

guest reader, Robo girl, for the intro:

kn-snp-eng-than : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

1 kn-snp-0-01-intro1-eng-than-rdrrobogirl - 59:07
2 kn-snp-0-02-intro2-eng-than-rdrrobogirl - 13:26

There’s good info in the intro, but I didn’t want to spend the time to read/record and get it PL’d myself. So the good part is she works for free, works super fast, doesn’t complain. The bad part is she can’t pronounce Pāli at all, and sometimes pronounces the wrong inflection of homonyms, altering the meaning.

I think the tradeoff is acceptable, what do you guys think?


#95

Thanks Frank for taking the trouble to record the Snp (really nice to have a free audio version of this). :anjal:

Seems to be a reasonable compromise. However, if you’re using eSpeak I notice there seems to be a way to use a dictionary (see “Pronounciation Dictionary List” here: eSpeak: Pronunciation Dictionaries ). You can override usual pronounciations for words (specify the phonemes). Maybe a dictionary of several dozen of the most common Pali words would smooth out most of the Pali issues (I could perhaps have a go at constructing that; though would definitely need someone to double check the resulting pronounciations).

Homonyms seem an occupation hazard for speech synthesis (though perhaps the really sophisticated approaches can make a good guess to at the correct pronounciations using AI).


#96

I took a look at the document, it looks interesting but I’m not sure it’s worthwhile to invest the time to set up a dictionary for common pali words unless it has more universal application (the same pronunciation definition file works for windows, android, etc.)

For audtip.org, I see espeak as just a placeholder until a human voice records a better version. No matter how good AI gets, even if it had a smart algorithm to sound credibly like Meryl Streep or Morgan Freeman, the human reading specific material is always going to be able to do really subtle nuances that give the specific reading an interesting character.

Just as if we take Mozart piece, different recordings from various artists from various times are always going to have a unique flavor that future audiences will appreciate having a selection from, rather than a technically perfect computer played rendition.


#97

No worries. I already have a small such dictionary file for my own use with Balabolka. If the phoneme setup on eSpeak is better, might get around to doing up a better and larger Pali dictionary on that for my own use at some stage (eSpeak seems to be compatible with other speech- to-text systems, not just Microsoft SAPI 5). If so, I might share it here sometime (if I ever get around to it and conclude it’s even worth doing :slight_smile: ). eSpeak claims to work on “Android, Mac OSX and Solaris” as well as windows and linux.


#98

One last thing for someone to double check, and we are done.

I made pali+english side by side version of Ven. Than’s sutta translation.
The .htmlz is the ideal version for laptops and larger screens, works on android tablets and android smartphones, probably iphones as well since it’s just the simplest html code imaginable. You just need to extract the index.html and style.css from the htmlz archive with a zip program like 7zip, and then view the index.html on your device with browers. Older android smartphones may have some problems with it, but newer android it should work just as well as on a desktop. The htmlz is the ideal version because you can scroll around, enlarge, use the hyperlink navigation, etc.

The epub and azw are ideal for e-ink devices like kindle paperwhite. Hyperlink navigation works on kindle, should work on epubs on other eink readers depending on how robust their software is.

PDF is not recommended, I only included it because some people don’t know how to handle the other file formats. Please don’t cut trees down to print on paper unless you know it’s going to get some really good use out of it, preferably from multiple people.

you can get to the download page from audtip.org -> KN -> snp

  • kn-snp-eng-than-VLC-playlists.zip
  • sutta-text.zip

♦ sutta nipāta pāḷi niṭṭhitā. (finished)

:slight_smile:


#99

I checked out the azw3 and epub files on my two ereaders: the epubs on a Sony PRS-T2 ereader from a few years back and the azw3 files on a more recent Kindle paperwhite. The side-by-side Pali and English versions looked well on both (particularly in landscape display modes). Render well on those devices at least. Hyperlinks to content work on both also (Pali diacritics don’t render properly on the Sony but that seems a general problem with the Sony for almost all Pali epubs and no improvement likely possible as Sony isn’t even in the ereader business anymore :frowning: ).


#100

I once had a barnes and nobles “nook”, and had the same problem with epub on there. I wonder if the newer nooks are like that still?

There is a work around, one can intall fonts in the epub and a few lines of css style to make it apply globally. I think that’s what they do for Thanissaro’s ebooks on dhammatalks.org.

thanks for checking!