Base of nothingness

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I am paraphrasing what Ven Analayo says: the perception of nothingness is perception of not self in the experience. You can correct me if I am wrong- it is what I am getting in his guided meditation emptiness 4 Brahmavihāras and Emptiness with Bhikkhu Anālayo - Barre Center for Buddhist Studies

I am wondering how someone wouldn’t automatically get insight after arupas? How would the base of nothingness have been practiced differently before the Buddha’s time? Maybe one needs the view of non-self as a prereq before the practice?

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Yes, right view is the forerunner of the noble path, so for one with right view, insight arises but not otherwise.

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Base of nothingness is attained by “nothingness” not by not self. Check this sutta MN106 - which describes several ways to attain base of nothingess.

Furthermore, a noble disciple reflects: ‘Sensual pleasures in this life and in lives to come, sensual perceptions in this life and in lives to come, visions in this life and in lives to come, perceptions of visions in this life and in lives to come, and perceptions of the imperturbable; all are perceptions. Where they cease without anything left over, that is peaceful, that is sublime, namely the dimension of nothingness.

In another sutta I remember it is said contemplating that all sankhara’s are impermanent also lead to dimension of nothingness. It’s the perception of nothingness that lead to base of nothingness - like nothing is permanent, nothing is self, nothing exists(Nihilism).

So it’s my opinion that those who attain base of nothingness through nihilism and other views may not lead to insight at all if they wouldn’t discard them.

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One still needs to contemplate the body in terms of the three characteristics after arupa jhana to attain. Someone with arupa jhana tends to attain quicker than someone with just the first four as they will see the dhukka of attachment and the four noble truths alot clearer coming out of such a refined state, particularly the vedana of the body. Also the depth and peace of mind is much more powerful so less wisdom is needed. Imagine if wisdom is a chisel to break through a wall (attain) the stronger the jhana the harder your hitting it with a conversely bigger hammer. Arupa jhana is like hitting the chisel (even if its blunt I.e wisdom faculty isn’t that mature) with a sledge hammer.

You can see how arupa jhana was practiced and taught by the buddhas two teachers Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta on his search for enlightenment who I think had 7th and 8th jhana respectively. He mastered those attainments but knew coming out of them it wasnt nibbana. Hope that helps.

Fun fact: there is no ‘sound’ of silence in arupa jhana as the mind detaches from the ayatana (sense basis) between 4th and 5th :shushing_face: