Beyond the Noble Eightfold Path

Who are we talking about?
Of voluptuous monks who have to separate them from women because they are lost? Or ariyas who have eradicated attachment and aversion?
An anagami, what is celibacy for? What do you get from it? To look like an anagami? Celibacy, virtue only serves simulators, supplanters, ordinary monks who want to appear enlightened … so that the people feed them to accumulate merit.
A successful monk can put you among thousands of women who will not be immature. The Buddha himself did not stir to the marvelous daughters of Mara.

The Atthakavagga is not canonical.
Love, happiness, pleasure are not born of the senses, the senses are not good for that. The senses induce the brain to generate these substances and the use of the senses causes the attachment to develop.
However, if it is the brain itself that generates these substances without mediating the senses and falls intoxicated in them there is no attachment. He is like the immensely rich man who does not cling to the money in his pocket.

The poor miserable yes, and more if he has to work to get it.

The Buddha used these substances in himself, instead of celibacy or restriction or fasting or mortification, and broke with the rules of the renunciants and began to eat, breaking the fast and provoking (supposedly) the scandal between His friends, the precursors of those substances.

And so it lit up. Using pure endogenous drugs whose effect is the pure effect, without mediating the senses. And it represents the sensuality that the Buddha has never condemned, since it comes neither from sight nor from the ear, nor from the nose, nor from the tongue nor from the body.

The Buddha almost always refers to the 6 doors. Here only 5.

It is strange to explain this to people who do not experience this every day, who do not know that this does not produce any attachment, is more, you have to put the will to pass it incredibly well.

No one can access enlightenment without this, no one. And it does not matter if you wear a suit, a robe, or a loincloth. So he told Ananda just before he died and dissolved the Sangha. And so did Moggallana and Sariputta.

It is curious that the most interesting sutta of the Canon Pali, the Bodhirajakumara Sutta, where the Buddha describes how he was enlightened (we will agree that the Buddha was enlightened, ok?) Is not translated into English,

Ananda does not advise him to practice celibacy (how many celibates were enlightened?), Nor the four noble truths, nor anything he told (and Ananda was known by legend according to legend) in 45 years. Only he would do as he did: to use his own endogenous drugs, apart from taking refuge in himself (Buddha and Sangha) and having a desire to learn.

Here I leave you the passage of Bodhirajakumara Sutta (MN 85):

"Then I thought: 'There have been in the past, there will be in the future and there are also today ascetics and Brahmins who have experienced piercing and piercing pains provoked by the effort, but there is nothing that surpasses them at all. However, I have not come through them to any superhuman state or to any knowledge and vision proper to the Nobles, is there no other path to enlightenment? ’

"Then, prince, I remembered, 'One day, when my father, from the clan of the sakyas, was working, I was sitting there taking the fresh one under the shade of a tree. There, separated from the desires of the senses, apart from what is harmful, I reached and remained in the first meditative abstraction, in which there is joy and happiness born of isolation and accompanied by ideation and reflection. Could not that be the path to enlightenment? ’

"And in the light of that memory I understood: ‘This is the way to enlightenment.’

"Then I thought, ‘Why fear a happiness that has nothing to do with the pleasures of the senses or what is harmful?’

"And I said to myself: ‘I do not fear that happiness that has nothing to do with the pleasures of the senses nor with the harmful’.

"Then, prince, I thought: ‘It is not easy to achieve happiness with a body that has been so exhausted, and if I have eaten something solid, boiled and curdled rice?’

"So I had some solid, boiled and curdled rice. On that occasion I was accompanied by five monks who thought, ‘If the ascetic Gotama attains the Teaching, he will tell us.’ But, by taking something solid, rice and curd, they were disappointed with me and went thinking: ‘Ascetic Gotama sticks the good life, has put aside the effort giving to the good life.’

"So, after eating solid food and regaining strength, set aside from the desires of the senses, apart from what is harmful, I reached and remained in the first meditative abstraction, in which there is joy and happiness born of the apartment, and Accompanied by ideation and reflection.

You are not able to differentiate doing things for the desire of doing things just because they are convenient … do you only act out of desire? Are you so bad?
I do not do anything out of desire, all I do is because it is the most convenient. I even answer to you.

Well, maybe not in the Tommitavadin Canon. :slight_smile: But the Khuddaka Nikaya is indeed part of the Pali Canon. Several books in the KN are widely acknowledged to be late additions, but not the Atthakavagga. K.R. Norman writes, in “The Atthakavagga and Early Buddhism”:

Most scholars would, I think, agree that the Aghakavagga, the fourth vagga of the Sutta-nipiita, containing 210 verses (= 766-975), is very old. It is referred to by name in other Pali canonical texts and in Sanskrit texts belonging to other traditions. It has a commentary upon it (the Mahiiniddesa) which is sufficiently old to be regarded as canonical, although since we do not know the date of the closing of the canon or how long before that closing the Niddesa was included in it, any dating can only be relative. The form of Buddhism represented in the Anhakavagga must therefore be thought to be vety old. Hajime Nakamura stated the generally accepted view when he 1 said: “The Aghakavagga and the Pariiyanavagga are very old; it is likely they existed even in the lifetime of Gotama Buddha. In these two we notice various Vedic, Brahmanistic and Jain features and wording (grammatical formations and vocabulary) Which cannot be traced in later Buddhist literature’? He went on to say: “The Suttanipiita is quite unique in describing the earliest stage of Buddhism when monks spent their lives as hermits prior to the days of monasteries, and philosophical speculations were barred (especially in the Aghakavagga); representing the stage prior to the formation of elaborate systems by Abhidharmika scholars.”

It’s in my copy of the Bodhi translaion of the MN.

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I’m sure that’s the view you hold.

About what?

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. I’ll number the ideas for reference.

  1. You are saying that that you have reached a place in your practice where you perceive in yourself no attachment, aversion or suffering.

  2. But you do not perceive that you have left Samsara.

  3. When you write of being “without further road” you are asking something like “it seems like I’ve come to the end of a road, what do I do now?”. Or what does Buddha dharma advise for a practitioner who has come to this point?

  4. Further you say that “the Buddha did not give the answer.”

Yes? Is this re-statement close ?


Why do you think the Buddha did not have to give an answer?

The latter 3 paragraphs I don’t understand.

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This is a good point. If @tommit feels like he is in a place which is not 100% satisfactory, and from which some escape is required, then clearly he IS suffering.

Dukkha does not always take the form of hair-on-fire panic or crushing anguish. It includes that more subtle, gnawing feeling that something isn’t quite right.

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The Abhidhamma is also in the Canon Pali. So what? Anything a publisher goal in the Canon Pali is Word of God? Are your mental factors atta? Do you have a single very fast neuron? Are you made of air and earth?
Having more than one neuron serves for more than copying and pasting quotes from others. Which also have a single neuron.

What follows after stopping suffering … what is next?

Exactly and I’m not the only one. Moreover, I have the route here perfectly protocolized and. People are following her are difficulty. The problem is now what? The suttas do not reach anything else, apart from what the Buddha did but did not tell.

Not at all. I have never been better at any time in my previous life, I did not change a single second of this life to the “other.” The thing is I want to end my exploration because I have not reached a place that says “FINISH” and where I am not FINISH. And I do not conform. I am in my right to enlighten myself completely and I want to do it. Since hellegado until here would be stupid to stay contemplating how well I am. I do not cling to how good I am, I want to end this.

If your suffering were truly ended, you would not be asking “now what?” - because you would be blissfully and perfectly happy right where you are.

But you are not blissfully and perfectly happy. You are clearly frustrated and dissatisfied, and haunted by a feeling that there is something more to be done. You have unfulfilled desire.

Frustration = suffering.

Dissatisfaction = suffering.

Being haunted = suffering.

Unfulfilled desire = suffering.

I would suggest that when you meditate, you try to attend to that feeling of something left to be done: examine it, penetrate into it, and see if you can get closer to observing its roots. Then perhaps you might find away to release whatever you are holding onto that perpetuates it, and cut it off near the root “like a palm stump.”

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You’re the one who believes they’ve put an end to suffering. So you tell me.

I do not believe in anything. Believing is unethical. Believing is an eternal source of suffering. Riding blind futures is the best way to fail and suffer. And I believe in my experience and it is good. Highly recommended. And arriving here needs to understand what suffering is (rupture of synapses due to failures of the foresight of the future, rupture of synapses due to creating stable structures on a present that is believed to be stable), which is the origin of suffering (the blind search for Happiness is the ultimate cause of attachment and aversion) the end of suffering (which is none other than disengaging from pathological addiction to serotonin) and the path that leads to the end of suffering (which is none other than a deconditioning exercise Continuous to all manifestation of happiness). In less than three months, without happiness and without yearning for happiness, attachment ceases to exist, and with it leads to suffering. But neither physical pain nor mental pain. Neither is pleasure in the senses. It is an easy exercise but beyond the reach of all who have not read and understood the Kalama sutta.

I’m sure you believe that.

You’re claiming you don’t feel physical pain?

Really?
And have you thought about it yourself?

Do you know a website called “suttacentral.net”?
Come on, read. Even an assistant is able to answer you …

Collection of speeches thematically grouped
Unnabhabrahmana Sutta
51.15. Discourse with Brahmin Unnabha

I have heard this. On one occasion Venerable Ananda was in Kosambi, in Ghosita Park. There, a Brahmin of the name Unnabha went to visit the Venerable Ananda and, upon arriving, exchanged with him cordial greetings. At the conclusion of the friendly welcome, Brahmin Unnabha sat down and addressed Venerable Ananda with these words: “Master Ananda, for what purpose is this holy life lived under the Gotama ascetic?”

“Brahmin, this holy life under the Gotama ascetic, is lived for the purpose of giving up desire.”

“But, Master Ananda, is there any way, is there a way to give up desire?”

“Yes, brahmin, there is the way and there is a way to give up desire.”

"So, Master Ananda, what is the way and what is the way to give up desire?

"Brahmin, it is the case of the monk who develops the basis of spiritual power endowed with concentration on desire and on the volitional formations of effort. He develops the basis of spiritual power endowed with concentration on energy and volitional formations of effort. He develops the basis of spiritual power endowed with concentration in the resolution and in the volitional formations of effort. He develops the basis of spiritual power endowed with concentration in research and in the volitional formations of effort. This is the way, brahmin, this is the way to give up desire. "

"If this is so, Master Ananda, then it is an endless path, a path that does not end. It is, therefore, impossible for anyone to abandon desire with their own desire. "

"In this case, brahmin, let me ask you a question on this topic. Answer as you see fit. What do you think, brahmin, you had or not, previously a wish thinking like this: ‘I’m going to go to the park’, and when you came to the park, was this particular desire dissipated? "

“Yes sir.”

“And you did not have, previously, the energy thinking like this: ‘I’m going to go to the park’, and when you came to the park, was this particular energy dissipated?”

“Yes sir.”

“And you did not have the resolution beforehand, thinking like this: ‘I’m going to go to the park’, and when you arrived at the park, was this particular resolution dissipated?”

“Yes sir.”

“And brahmin beforehand, you were not also investigating thinking like this: ‘I’m going to go to the park’, and when you arrived at the park, has this particular investigation been dissipated?”

“Yes sir.”

"And in exactly the same way, in the case of a monk who has become an arahant: who put an end to mental impurities, lived a holy life, finished the task, lowered his burdens, reached the supreme goal, completely destroyed Chains of the future existences and was completely liberated through the final knowledge. He also, previously, had the desire to attain arahant status. And when it reached the state of arahant, this desire was dispelled. Also, previously, he had the energy to attain arahant status. And when it reached arahant state, this energy was dissipated. Also, previously, it had the resolution to reach the state of arahant. And when it reached the state of arahant, this resolution was dissipated. Also, previously, it was investigating to reach the state of arahant. And when it reached arahant state, this investigation was dissipated.

“Then Brahmin, what do you think: is this endless road or is it a road that ends?”

"You are right, Master Ananda. This path is a path that has an end and not an endless path. Excellent, Master Ananda! Really, magnificent! Master Ananda has exposed the Dhamma in different ways. It is as if someone straightened out what was twisted, as if revealing, what was hidden, as if it showed the way to someone who was lost or if he lit a lamp in the darkness, so that someone with a good eye could perceive the shapes. Remind me, Master Ananda, as of today, as one of the lay followers who came for the shelter for life. "

Define me "pain."
The signal I have, but it is a signal. I do not get involved in it. If it is very strong and can get my attention, the same attention becomes concentration and this produces synesthesia: I see colors. According to the intensity of light green to dark purple.
Do you “hurt” the colors?
Not me.
And it’s a problem because I can be really hurting and I ignore it can be problematic.

You’re saying you see colors when you concentrate on strong pain? Wow…

:mushroom:

That is developed in the series of practices in the beginning that I call 2.0. But it is not by far the most spectacular … if you want to know what you get and by what you do I have a relationship (even incomplete, but with something more than 108 achievements) in my blog in Spanish. It’s called “à la carte” menu.