Not really. She asked:
You avoided saying, but I guess it’s a “No” to both of us?
I don’t understand, but I feel there’s no point in questioning an example with no context.
But ayaṃ can mean that as well as this, right?
Yes. ‘Having approached”/ ‘having gone up to’’. .
Yes, ‘ayam’ can mean ‘that’.
1 Like
Please clarify the idiomatic order of the words when there is a quotation.
For the exercises “The king said this:“we must go”” and “I do not say this world doesn’t exist” I tried to imitate Warder’s example of “n’eso n’atthī ti vadāmi”, but I think I got the phrase all scrambled 
etad rājā mayaṃ ema ti avoca
ayaṃ an eso loko n’atthì ti vademi
What are the options for the proper order of the words?
Hi,
Does Warder give his suggestions for these at the back of the textbook?
1 Like
= Mendicant, go to the Buddha and ask him this question. 
I wish the Buddha were here. There were so many questions to ask him. But of course, if he were here, he would be speaking a modern language and I wouldn’t need to study Pali!
2 Likes
That is an idiomatic translation, but as a student of Pali I would suggest that you translate more literally.
1 Like
Which translation are you referring to?
I was referring to the translation of this sentence in your last post.
1 Like
It’s not mine. It’s Ajahn Sujato’s. 
1 Like
Yes, I know.
My point is that for a Pali language student, translating literally and reading literal translations is valuable.
3 Likes
Thank you.
An ideal example for me to understand a language is to see both literal translation and the translation (or explanation) that conveys the real meaning and register and all implications and connotations of the source text.
The latter is useful for me to find an equivalent in my own language though a 100% match is not always possible.
I’m also aware that providing the latter is time-consuming and a translation expert may not have time/patience to do so.
Example: ‘This is a book’. Primary-school students in Thailand are told that it means 'นี่คือหนังสือ" (literal translation), but I’ve never heard anyone in Thailand uses this sentence in real life. Of course, this translation is useful for children to understand another language. However, educated adult learners would benefit more from detailed explanations, and their understanding of the language will be accurate and deeper, and as a result, their translation would be close to being ‘perfect’.
My way of learning might sound too ambitious for those who are skilled in Pali. But it has taken me decades before I can understand English the way I do now. I can’t afford the same amount of time to understand Pali. 
1 Like
I agree. Or leave idiomatic phrases and context sensitive words untranslated (my preferred approach).
From my experience studying Japanese, a lot of stock idiomatic Japanese phrases (like よろしくお願い and even ただ今) are not easily translatable to English without losing a lot of cultural context and I absolutely hate these translated as “Nice to meet you” or “Honey, I’m home!”.
With regards to the the sentence containing bhavaṃ I would probably leave that word untranslated as well as māṇava (thanks @sujato for clarifying this is a taddhita affixed noun indicating a profession or someone possessing a “quality” - perhaps not everyone in the class would have understood the significance of this but I did and I was very grateful):
May bhavaṃ be to the honourable Jotipāla the Māṇava!
PS - sorry for being quiet lately. I have not been well, I guess my karma has been catching up on me.
1 Like
I guess he is busy?
I have lots of questions to ask (as usual) and am looking forward to hearing the answers!
1 Like
I was looking too Venerable…
1 Like
I’m thinking, “Maybe Bhante’s thinking that if he stays away,we’ll work more things through for ourselves, and then not want to post so many questions on Monday.”
(Actually I’m behind on my study this week. 
)
Hmmmmm
You might be right… but…
After reviewing the lesson for the third time, the number of the questions prepared to ask Bhante remains the same. (I was lucky to have the whole day ‘forced free’ on Thursday to prepare this lesson. Last week I struggled a lot due to familial obligations.)
1 Like