Bhikkhu patidesaniya 3 (mostly 🙂)

Thanks for more great drawings!
Bhi Pac 94 earned an LOL for somehow getting across the bhikkhuni scooting in front of the bhikkhu.
I think Bhi Pac 95 would be improved by a drop of sweat on the bhikkhu’s head to show his nervousness or intimidation by the questioner.
The 4th Patidesaniya successfully and humerously conveyed the problem; well done!
The 2nd Pati. has me a little puzzled, as it seems to show the bhikkhu telling the organizing bhikkhuni to go away, which would be the correct behavior.


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The large red X on the speech bubble is supposed to show that he doesn’t speak. Not sure how to make it clearer. I’ll think about it.

:grin: Yes, good idea. I had an earlier draft with a panicky bhikkhu, but it was too exaggerated. And now it’s too boring… :sweat_smile: I’ve changed it.


Hi, it has been years since I first read about this rule. Could you point me where in the text ‘in training’ is defined? I assumed it was related to awakening stages. :sweat_smile:

It’s in the vibhanga (explanation) of the rule.


Sekha usually refers those with attainments. I wonder if that applies here?

Thanks for the link.
Interesting the combination of increasing in faith and decreasing in wealth.
Would this maybe constitute a placeholder for these individuals eventualy joining the Sangha? :thinking:

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When I was shopping around for a monastery to ordain at, I wouldn’t donate if I was actually considering joining. And if any religious group tells you that you have to give them all your money… well… that’s a cult

Indeed, in my travels there were a few monasteries that pressured me into giving them money (in one case very aggressively), even well after I had made my intentions to ordain clear. In the end, I gave them the money and then took a note to never associate with them again :joy:

[PS: Mods, feel free to kick this subthread off to a new topic]


Yeah, not a very nice feeling.

I do believe the people mentioned as trainees here are stream entrants.

With metta

There’s nothing in the rule that would indicate that. In training means what I have stated above:

Please read the rule explanation I have linked above in post 127. :slightly_smiling_face:


You are welcome to believe what you wish, but the Pāli Canon clearly defines it as “that family which is growing in faith, decreasing in wealth” as was already quoted above.

Your interpretation, to my understanding, is a commentarial development which, since setting a higher bar in this case is a bit self-serving (allowing more donations), can be safely set aside in deference to the EBT’s own definition.


I have not read the commentary, but I don’t think it’s got anything to do with the four stages of awakening.
It just doesn’t make sense. Then the sangha would be allowed to exploit the goodwill of puthujana supporters, but not of ariyans…

Edit: I have now read the commentary. It does in fact say that the lay supporters are sotapannas, based on the vibhanga’s explanation that they are pleased with the dhamma. That’s a bit farfetched in my opinion. The majority of lay supporters are pleased with the dhamma, without necessarily being sotapannas.


Ah, here’s the relevant passage from the BMC addressing this issue:

The term in training (sekha) is usually used to refer to anyone who has attained at least the first noble path but has yet to become an arahant. Here, though, the Vibhaṅga uses it to refer to any family whose faith is increasing but whose wealth is decreasing—i.e., a family whose faith is so strong that they become generous to the point of suffering financially.


Could one of the mods please move the posts from no 126 onwards to a new thread?

Many thanks! :heart:
@aminah @moderators

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This may be more of a concern for public perception than for impact upon the generous family; during a time of shortage the Buddha responded to accusations that he was burdening people by him & the monks going for alms, by saying that in the 91 eons he can recall, not once has anyone suffered loss due to giving alms. (Anyone know the location of that quote? I think maybe in the Mahavagga.)

i would assume this is about the impact on the family, if one is in training one might think; ‘The Buddha praised giving when asked, even if one has little, i shall give until i become poor myself, it is right that i who have should give to those who need.’ Next thing you know they are eating disagreeable food themselves or worse have to borrow money.