“Blessed One: “One who sees dependent origination sees the Dhamma; one who sees the Dhamma sees dependent origination.”

According to Bhikkhu Bodhi “341This statement has not been traced directly to the Buddha in any of the existing suttas in the Pali Canon.

There are many untraced teachings

If this is the words of Buddha. How do you understand it?

This also makes me remember what he said that if we see him we see Dhamma.

One who is dependent has wavering. One who is independent has no wavering. There being no wavering, there is calm. There being calm, there is no yearning. There being no yearning, there is no coming or going. There being no coming or going, there is no passing away or arising. There being no passing away or arising, there is neither a here nor a there nor a between-the-two. This, just this, is the end of stress.[1]

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.8.04.than.html

I think we have to see the truth that being independent is possible. The mind is dependent and has wavering.

The quote makes perfect sense in that dependent origination, the arising and passing of all things (including thoughts, feelings and perceptions, as well as the physical), is due to this process. Understanding this process, one sees non-self, seeing non-self, there can no longer be craving, and thus no more delusion… This is the Dhamma as I understand it. As such, one who sees conditional arising, sees the Dhamma. All the teachings of the Buddha are methods that culminate in this.

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But if you compare to when he says that if you see him you see Dhamma? And in what way do you understand him saying Dhamma? What did he realize is dependent origination. True. But when he talks about Dhamma. It can be the whole seeing the dependent origination and the end result. Which is Nirvana. So actually how we have to say correctly is whoever see dependent origination see Nirvana. Because that’s the goal. That’s the seeing with wisdom. The most important step after mastery of Samādhi and Vipassanā. Thing are calm. Seeing dependent origination is actually getting the final stage which is Nirvana. And as you said seeing that is seeing Non-self. With seeing non-self is included The three defilement of non-greed , non-anger or non-hate, and non-delusion. And the list goes on because we have seen non-self. There is non-delight.

In Buddha teachings there is 108 feelings. Basic training two feelings, up a step ahead three feelings.

So the step to reach non-delight. For example. First seeing that we don’t have to delight. And that we have to practice Dhamma. Practicing the Dhamma makes mastery of seeing things neutral. After is the final step of transcending all feelings, to famously said non-delight. But actually it’s nor feeling non-delight.

So imagine Ananda final breakthrough to Enlightenment. He practiced a lot already. Seeing non-self where there was always actually non-self. It just we don’t see it. The mind had to be finally tamed to accept the hard truth.

Have a look at these resources. You may find the paper on Dependent Liberation useful as it is the reverse of the process of D.O.

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I will take a look. But in my understanding first breakthrough is not fully understanding Dependent Origination yet. It’s finding a Aha! Moment. More like having a taste of Nirvana. If after that you not meditate and follow Buddha’s instruction fully Nirvana is impossible to reached. We tend to Tripitaka examples as the process. But there is no proof to what they experienced. To my study. It seems the first breakthrough is just seeing and realizing. Arising as Non-self. Then in the process of working towards Nirvana it happens that both are seen as non-self. But still that attachment to that truth you have realized have to be also removed. So it a long journey that’s why in Netti explain more types of Arahants then the Nikāyas.

Ok. Let’s start with ignorance then.

According to Mahavagga. (Vinaya)

Buddha said.

Again, by the destruction of Ignorance, which consists in the complete absence of lust.

Then the rest will follow in the link.

What is the main problem human have?
Lust for life. Thinking they are something. SELF. And the main belief behind this is because believing things are permanent.

Buddha’s two main disciples was ascetics already before Sāriputta heard about what Buddha teaches. He said to the monk you have found the Deathless. That’s the first breakthrough.

They being meditators already. Probably without lust. They understood that everything Has a Arising has a Ceasing. So impermanence. Nothing is permanent.
That moment Sāriputta mind as meditator aiming for Deathless. Must had been calm. When he heard the truth. There was no going back to the other path they was following. Immediately he went to the Buddha. He has found the Path. He is convinced. What he saw? It’s like a glimpse. Anyone see a glimpse of the sun, calls it sunlight.

The first teaching he heard is still directly related to dependent origination. He saw the glimpse of Nirvana or the deathless. (Doesn’t go in detail of his experience, but for example there is a monk that either became Arahant or attained one of the path, by seeing the river flowing. What was that but seeing impermanence. Another by seeing a human as a skeleton, probably by doing much meditation on real skeleton, he finally saw the non-delight)

This is another instance for Sāriputta

Just fanning Buddha, and hearing the teachings

Now at that time Venerable Sāriputta was standing behind the Buddha fanning him. Then he thought, “It seems the Buddha speaks of giving up and letting go all these things through direct knowledge.” Reflecting like this, Venerable Sāriputta’s mind was freed from the defilements by not grasping.

So seeing these are called seeing dependent origination. But these are either glimpses of Nirvana that is experienced or the monks/nuns see through the final breakthrough. So either glimpse up till the final breakthrough. Nirvana is light and in each path Glimpses of Nirvana is experienced.

Buddha has said

The famous verse of Vedic was said by past Buddha.

It’s about going from darkness to Light. :bulb:

Interesting sutta

“Friend, though I have clearly seen as it really is with correct wisdom, ‘Nibbāna is the cessation of existence,’ I am not an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed. Suppose, friend, there was a well along a desert road, but it had neither a rope nor a bucket. Then a man would come along, oppressed and afflicted by the heat, tired, parched, and thirsty. He would look down into the well and the knowledge would occur to him, ‘There is water,’ but he would not be able to make bodily contact with it. So too, friend, though I have clearly seen as it really is with correct wisdom, ‘Nibbāna is the cessation of existence,’ I am not an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed.”

This says he sees clearly dependent origination as is asked but he is not Arahant.

This what I was trying to explain

He would look down into the well and the knowledge would occur to him, ‘There is water,’ but he would not be able to make bodily contact with it.

He says he have seen with correct wisdom

So that’s why I understand that if you see dependent origination you see Nirvana. Because there must be glimpse before Nirvana.

To see dependent origination clearly is becoming a Sotapanna (eg. Ananda saying his sight of dependent origination in Mahanidana Sutta)

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Thanks for your response. That was my understanding. That’s why according to what the monks explained about the water pond then it makes sense to say those who see dependent origination see Nirvana. Or it’s better to say then those who see dependent origination see a glimpse of Nirvana. Buddha said also this Dhamma has one taste, the taste of freedom.

So starting from sotapanna up there is taste of freedom.

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