The common denominator I’ve found is that the goal of the path is to end suffering, therefore that path would end the suffering of/from those disorders if any.
If whatever symptom(s) are left behind still count as the disorder, then they have the disorder without suffering. If a disorder necessarily requires desire, selfishness, or suffering, then they wouldn’t have it. Substance addiction and OCD for example have loops with desire as one step for example, so perhaps with no desire, those disorders would be completely gone, but some disorders are purely genetic or neural which relates to their own suffering but doesn’t necessarily have suffering. Quantifying depression and anxiety disorder is too difficult for me because it involves a lot of both painful feelings and suffering in complex ways.
The whole idea of a ‘disorder’ though. It’s to some extent also connected to one’s ability to function as a 9-to-5 wage laborer.
There is this whole interplay between getting a diagnosis and that in turn triggering certain kinds of benefits (e.g. sick leave, sick pay) or access to medication or other resources.
But does someone really ‘have’ depression (like it’s this real entity one possesses) or is it just a word for “this person is feeling really bad and they need extra help”?
What we today call mental illness, or disorders – hard to separate that from our own specific cultural understanding of human nature (e.g. highly individualized, brain-based).
And like, from the perspective of the Buddha, anyone who delights and enjoys sensual pleasures is like a leper cauterizing their wounds over a fire! Who is it that really has a disorder? (sensual attachment disorder?)
I’m also of the opinion stream winners can experience clinical depression. Proviso—I think their grasp on what’s happening is better and their subsequent mental suffering may however be lessened or at least attenuated. Holding no wrong view of self, it is a phenomena that may be physio-chemical or kamma-bound… But it should be recognized as a mental state. It is dependently originated.
It is hard to labor under suffering mental states and we may tend towards despair in the midst of clinical depression. A person with wisdom remembers what a great refuge we have in the triple gem. In such a way it is possible to be depressed technically but being mindful of that state with greater compassion.
A wise person doesn’t look at their missing leg and wonder aloud “Why do I walk slower than my peers?” just so… I don’t think a depressed person should wonder why they’re depressed. It is for a reason beyond their immediate control. Resolve to do your best in full light of the fact. Socialize with positive people (not necessarily “problem solvers” as the attendant guilt for not meeting a perceived metric may lead to further suffering). Take care of the body, nourish it, sleep an appropriate amount. In the end, remember that all conditioned formations (including mental states) are impermanent.
If it feels larger than you, see a professional. Be mindful of your thoughts. Depression can often sap any positive or neutral thought and bring it into the darkness. When seen this is happening, don’t further despair. Congratulations on noticing it in that moment. Acknowledge it as an aspect of this depression. Resolve to be better at catching those thoughts. Don’t hold on to it. Congratulate yourself for having the wisdom to seek help before it gets too out of hand. Be mindful, not of the suffering per se but the mental processes and the untrained mind’s reaction. Be thankful for the suffering as it gives us a teacher, a place to work from, a premise.
As far as attainments and the possibility of this arising or that arising… The attainments are waypoints on the path and nowhere does it say a stream-winner doesn’t have suffering of this sort. As I said, I believe that having started unlocking the mind and it’s reactions… Acceptance of the true nature of that suffering leads to attenuation.
I hope you will reach your goal. It’s uplifting to see how determined you are on practicing the Noble Path in the face of such challenges. Keep up the faith, the work, and good results will follow.
I took the oath of 5 precepts 13 years ago. Nobody told me we were supposed to do this regularly, so I took them on for life and promised to always hold the Dhamma, and then the rest would fall into place
Maybe I’m a believer, but this naive and firm promise I made to my own heart would show its strength beyond my wildest dream
I guess I leaped without knowing, so no fear just walk right in and sit right down
Why does it seem like we tolerate lying, taking precepts, and breaking them instantly after we pass the gate to the temples? Weird attitude, and kind of “Elephant” in the room, but no wise footsteps coming from imaginary Dumbo’s.
Buddhist precepts and all promises are taken once and kept until school is finished, and this school doesn’t end with death. So, maybe people should think about promises made, especially in Heaven. No free lunch you see …
Karma is Boss.
If we meant it, we wouldn’t be stuck here, in endless debates about doubts.
No, religion has lost the game, and Buddhism may show its religious Achilles heel, now when the going gets tough. The robust - The “calm eye of the tornado” hides under the tables, and relies on brute force will heal the situation we’re in
bhante, there is a story related in ‘the great disciples of the buddha’ book (i think), about anathapindika’s daughter, sumana, who was a once returner, that she died of sorrow at realising that she would never be able to settle into the happiness of common lay life.
i don’t know the source of the story though or its veracity.
