Can an Arahant be against bhikkhuni ordination?

Hi Apeiron

Thanks for your question too, though maybe off topic. If someone were to say they had realised the Fruit of SE, this would be the question to ask, alternatively: what are the Four Noble Truths?

Of course you would know some of the traditional/textual explanations, that knowledge of the Four Noble Truths (4NT) is Right View (e.g. as found in SuttaCentral which I think is a later compilation, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have original teachings). In another place (ref?) it says if one knows (understands?) any one of the Four, one knows them all, which I don’t accept.

I agree with the first idea, but in different words I could say: ‘Right View is that view which causes the eradication of the First Three Fetters’. So there would be three aspects to Right View matching the First Three Fetters. One who is Attained to (Right) View (achieved the Fruit of SE) would have covered all three aspects. Various names of types of SE’s would reflect which/how many aspects they had realised.


  • identity view
  • doubt
  • attachment to rites/rules and rituals

Aspects of Right View:

  • understanding the (true) meaning of the 4NT, most essentially the first, which covers identity view, imo. (I have already discussed my understanding of the Fist Noble Truth in another thread What is the First Noble Truth?. There I try to point out that these two lines of thought/explanations are not compatible: The First Noble Truth is: 1. Life is (the Five Aggregates are) suffering, supported by the doctrine of the 3 (Universal) Characteristics and the commentarial doctrine of the three kinds of suffering, which is pure Hinduism to me and 2. Life with clinging is (the Five Clung-to Aggregates are) suffering. So the Arahant’s Five Aggregates are without clinging and are therefore not suffering, only impermanent and anattā.)
  • developing confidence in the theoretical framework of the 4NT from investigation and reflection, in the way the probably Buddha taught, seeing the Buddha’s teaching is an integrated whole, not a patchwork of nice but not really related teachings
  • testing the theory of the 4NT and experiencing the first taste of liberation, enables one to see rites and rituals are ineffective for liberation, though they might have some social relevance e.g. bonding

Those can be easily matched with what I believe is the Path to SE (Fruit) (ref?):

  • association with the wise
  • listening to what they have to say
    (these two match the first aspect)
  • reflecting on it
    (this matches the second aspect)
  • practising the Dhamma according to Dhamma
    (this matches the third aspect)

See also the ‘gradual training’: SuttaCentral

At the point theoretical understanding is confirmed in experience, then Right View changes to Right Insight, imo (see the 10-fold Path, which has Right Insight and Right Liberation after Right Concentration see (PDF) Bucknell's 1984 Study of Five Presentations of the Path | Joe Smith -

I hope that answers your question.

best wishes

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