Can Jhana level samadhi be experienced outside the Buddhadhamma?

[Dogen]

@am7

Now considering your question about different religions or other people, I queried AI for “are there people who can daydream and see images with eyes closed while awake” and here is its output. Googling a bit it seems that many people can or could see images with eyes closed - which brings the question does this mean that they do have certain level of samadhi? Because MN128 states that if samadhi breaks light and vision of forms vanishes.

(You might want to edit your post because AI generated content is banned on the forums).

To me, this comes naturally since childhood, and I’m pretty sure it’s not related to samadhi, but a level of concentration is still required (especially for image manipulation). However, I can see that if samadhi is your gateway to such experiences, then losing samadhi (or the things that make you lose samadhi, like doubt or anger or other negative emotions) can loop you out of it.

High level autists and people with photographic memories can have access to these kind of things, again, sometimes when relaxed, sometimes intrusively. So, I wouldn’t say mental image alone is a good benchmark for samadhi, but samadhi might make such experiences easier to access, if that makes sense.

@anom

Is it possible for a meditator e.g a Raja Yoga disciple, to experience an identical samadhi to bona fide Rupa Jhana phenomena as the Buddha describes in the suttas.

One of the things that differentiate Buddhadhamma JhanaTM from other Jhanas / Samadhis is the Right View that goes into it. Other sorts of samadhi experiences are called micchasamādhi in the Pāli Canon:

What is mitya samadhi / miccha samādhi?

There is a dynamic relationship between sila, samadhi and panna: “At the psychological level sila brings harmony to the mind, protection from the inner split caused by guilt and remorse over moral transgressions. At the kammic level the observance of sila ensures harmony with the cosmic law of kamma, hence favorable results in the course of future movement through the round of repeated birth and death. And at the fourth level, the contemplative, sila helps establish the preliminary purification…

Furthermore, Bodhisattva practices 4 formless immersions before his enlightenment, so his teachers were familiar with those kind of samadhis. Likewise, it’s highly likely that 4 Brahmavihara samadhis are not unique to Buddhism (and they’re actually of secondary importance in the suttas, since they only lead as far as non-return, rather than full release). Therefore, we have at least 8 samadhi experiences that are shared with different paths.

Seeing how 4th Jhana is often touted as the gateway to all the mystical experiences, it’s likely that other meditators can access something similar, since they have similar mystical experiences themselves.

The key difference would be the attitude towards the experience. A buddhist is said to view even jhanic experiences as dukkha, and to seek higher and subtler experiences; whereas another practitioner might identify with, cherish and delight in the experience. Whether this attitude towards the same thing actually makes it a different thing or not, you be the judge of that.