Can one practice more than one satipatthana at a time (eventually all four at once)?

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I was thinking about satipatthana recently and this question came to me. I think I remember reading something which stated that the Sarvastivada Abhidharma teaches something like this, but maybe I am mis-remembering.

Is there anything in the suttas that mentions whether this is a proper way of doing satipatthana (at least eventually for an advanced meditator)?

Also wouldn’t the kind of “open awareness” or shikantaza style practices in which one is aware of everything that presents itself to experience be basically a kind of unstructured way of doing this?

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I’m unfamiliar with Sarvastivada Abhidharma. In MN 118, it’s said that one can fulfill all four Satipatthanas with Anapanasati. I have a feeling that you may already know this, but I’ll put it out there anyway.

Mindfulness of breathing, when developed and cultivated, fulfills the four kinds of mindfulness meditation. The four kinds of mindfulness meditation, when developed and cultivated, fulfill the seven awakening factors. And the seven awakening factors, when developed and cultivated, fulfill knowledge and freedom.

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One usually is practicing more than one at a time, and all four at times. Ajahn Lee talks about “the great frame of reference” in his books, where all four are present simultaneously.

The remembering (sati) that one establishes (upatthana) is a particular Dhamma-[teaching]. So that’s the 4th of the 4sp.

So for example, if one is doing 16 APS (anapanasati),
4th sp = 16 APS. Dhammesu-Dhamma-anu-passi viharati… One dwells continuously seeing Dhamma as Dhamma (practicing Dhamma in accordance to Dhamma, not incorrectly).

So let’s say you’re paying attention to discerning (pajanati, of sati & sam-pajano) the experience of sukha. The word used for “experience” is pati-sam-vedi. Vedi is the verb form of the aggregate vedana, which straddles physical and mental territorry. That word “pati-sam-vedi”, if you look in the 16 APS, is used in the first 3 of the 4sp (kaya, vedana, and citta, not just vedana). Vedana is not just “feeling”, it’s “experiencing” primarily originating from the physical, but covers mind as well.

So if we’re paying attention to sukha, we’re noticing sukha in the body (step 3, under kaya-anupassana)
we may also be noticing the mental aspect of sukha, under step 10 (under citta-anupassana),
also covered under step 6 (vedana-anu-passana, sukha-pati-sam-vedi)

The fact that 16 APS is an important Dhamma that we’re practicing is already covered under Dhamma-anupassana, but we may also be doing step 13 (dhamma-anupassana, anicca anu passi, noticing uneveness, rising and falling of the sukha vedana)

So that covers all 4sp simultaneously

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Thanks for your response. Are there Sutta passages that clearly show that this is a correct interpretation?

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Is there something more specific you’re questioning?
For example, you see how more then two categories of 4sp can be concurrently practiced, but not all 4, or not 3 or more? If so, which sp do you not see capable of concurrency?

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The way I understand Sati means remembering and knowing what is happening right now.

  • When you meditate if you feel pain say in your back you contemplate on Vedananupassana
  • When you meditate if you feel drowsy or sleepy etc you contemplate on four hindrances i.e Dhammanupassana
  • When you meditate if you have thoughts associated with attachment etc you contemplation Cittanupassna
  • Then you use Sati Smapanana to coordinate all of them contemplating Kayanupassana etc.

Just be mindful knowing what Buddha taught.

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There’s nothing in particular that’s bothering me, it’s how I’ve always interpreted the four sps but since the texts don’t outright say this but one must ultimately infer it from them, I was just wondering if there was something more explicit.

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in SN 54.8, the ending portion (following the 16 APS instructions and 16 benefits of APS), you can see all 4sp are referenced in the practice done.

(3 types of feeling impermanent, etc.)

Evaṃ bhāvite kho, bhikkhave,
 Thus developed indeed, monks,
Ānā-pānas-sati-samādhimhi
 inhale-exhale-mindful-concentration
evaṃ bahulīkate,
 thus pursued:
sukhañ-ce vedanaṃ vedayati,
 {If}-pleasurable feeling (he) feels,
sā ‘a-niccā’ti pajānāti,
 that (is) 'im-permanent' (he) discerns,
‘an-ajjhositā’ti pajānāti,
 'not-clung (to)' (he) discerns,
‘an-abhi-nanditā’ti pajānāti;
 'not-over-joyed' (he) discerns;
dukkhañ-ce vedanaṃ vedayati,
 {If}-painful feeling (he) feels,
sā ‘a-niccā’ti pajānāti,
 that (is) 'im-permanent' (he) discerns,
‘an-ajjhositā’ti pajānāti,
 'not-clung (to)' (he) discerns,
‘an-abhi-nanditā’ti pajānāti;
 'not-over-joyed' (he) discerns;
a-dukkham-a-sukhañ-ce vedanaṃ vedayati,
 {If}-neither-painful-nor-pleasurable feeling (he) feels,
sā ‘a-niccā’ti pajānāti,
 that (is) 'im-permanent' (he) discerns,
‘an-ajjhositā’ti pajānāti,
 'not-clung (to)' (he) discerns,
‘an-abhi-nanditā’ti pajānāti;
 'not-over-joyed' (he) discerns;

(detached from 3 types of feelings, body, life )

Sukhañ-ce vedanaṃ vedayati,
 {if}-pleasurable feeling (he) feels,
vi-saṃyutto naṃ vedayati;
 dis-joined from-it (he) feels;
dukkhañ-ce vedanaṃ vedayati,
 {if}-painful feeling (he) feels,
vi-saṃyutto naṃ vedayati;
 dis-joined from-it (he) feels;
a-dukkham-a-sukhañ-ce vedanaṃ vedayati,
 {if}-neither-painful-nor-pleasurable feeling (he) feels,
vi-saṃyutto naṃ vedayati.
 dis-joined from-it (he) feels;

(transcended body, life )

So
 He,
kāya-pariyantikaṃ vedanaṃ vedayamāno
 (when) body-limited feeling (he) feels,
‘kāya-pariyantikaṃ vedanaṃ vedayāmī’ti pajānāti,
 'body-limited feeling (I) feel,' (he) discerns,
jīvita-pariyantikaṃ vedanaṃ vedayamāno
 (when) life-limited feeling (he) feels,
‘jīvita-pariyantikaṃ vedanaṃ vedayāmī’ti pajānāti,
 'life-limited feeling (I) feel,' (he) discerns,
‘kāyassa bhedā uddhaṃ jīvita-pariyādānā
 '(with) body's breaking up, lifepsan-limit [reached],
idheva sabba-vedayitāni an-abhi-nanditāni
 here-indeed, all-feelings, not-delighted-in,
sītī-bhavissantī’ti
 {becomes}-cool.’
pajānāti.
 (This he) discerns.
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Thanks!