Can 'sankhara' meaning 'conditioning'?

Q & A
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From the collected teachings of Ajahn Chah:

  • “Conditioned things are the realm of samsara”

  • “The mind becomes the unconditioned, the state which no longer contains conditioning factors.
    The mind is no longer conditioned by the concerns of the world, conditions no longer contaminate the mind. Pleasure and pain no longer aeect it. Nothing can affect the mind or change it, the mind is assured, it has escaped all constructions. Seeing the true nature of conditions and the determined,
    the mind becomes free. This freed mind is called the ‘unconditioned’, that which is beyond the power of constructing influences”

  • Please clearly understand that when the mind is still, it’s in its natural, normal state. As soon as the mind moves, it becomes conditioned (sankhara). When the mind is attracted to something, it becomes conditioned. When aversion arises, it becomes conditioned. The desire to move here and there arises from conditioning. If our awareness doesn’t keep pace with these mental proliferations as they occur, the mind will chase after them and be conditioned by them. Whenever the mind moves, at that moment, it becomes a conventional reality"

Some explain kaya sankhara as those mental formations that condition or give rise to bodliy movements such as breath but also raising an arm, moving a leg etc.
Vaci sankhara as those mental formations that condition or give rise to inner verbalisations (thoughts) and outer, speaking.
Mano or citta sankhara as those mental formation that condition or give rise to certain states of mind, that cause mentallity, an angry mindset, a greedy, jalous etc. Constructing influences.

I do not think it is really appropriate to think about those arising sankhara’s as willed but more like habitual forces. I belief it is like the breath. It is not that we every moment decide to breath.

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kayasanhara is all the metabolic activities of the body, including heart beats.

of course these citta and kaya sankharas are all for humans. for super beings cittasankhara are something like a storm, fire, lightening, etc. for super super being, cittasankhara could be the creation/destruction of a world. our physical world is too fragile for super beings to move around.

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Speaking about superbeings, what kind of beings do you refer to?

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Thank you. ‘Conditioning’ can be a noun, such as in the term ‘air conditioning’. :dizzy:

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As you probably know, a literal translation of this Pali would be something like,
One trains, “I will breathe in stilling the body saṅkhāra”.

As you say, kāyasaṅkhāraṁ must be a noun or adjective as it’s the object of the verb along with the present participle passambhayaṃ.

Since ‘saṅkhāra’ itself is a noun, I’m not sure how it could be translated as a present participle.

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Thank you Stephen. I was hoping for “stilling the body conditioning’” i.e., stilling the conditioning or activating or stress-manufacturing of/happening to the body.

conditioning

noun

  1. ​the training or experience that an animal or a person has that makes them behave in a particular way in a particular situation
    Is personality the result of conditioning from parents and society, or are we born with it?

Oxford Learner’s Dictionaries

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I suppose that is possible. As saṅkhāra is sometimes translated as ‘conditioned thing’, kāyasaṅkhāra could mean ‘the body, which is conditioned’ or ‘the body, which has been formed by conditions’.

But it seems to me the sense is that what is being stilled is ‘the body’, which has been brought into existence (and its current state) by conditions.
I’m not sure if this is what you are getting at.
To be honest, I don’t quite understand what Ven. Sujato is getting at with ‘body’s motion’. What do you think?

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Thank you. For me, busy &/or unwholesome mental states cause stress in the breathing & body, as follows:

If I think and ponder upon this thought even for a night, even for a day, even for a night and day, I see nothing to fear from it. But with excessive thinking and pondering I might tire my body, and when the body is tired, the mind becomes strained, and when the mind is strained, it is far from concentration.’

MN 19

When one abides inflamed by lust, fettered, infatuated, contemplating gratification, then the five aggregates affected by clinging are built up for oneself in the future; and one’s craving—which brings renewal of being, is accompanied by delight and lust, and delights in this and that—increases. One’s bodily and mental troubles increase, one’s bodily and mental torments increase, one’s bodily and mental fevers increase, and one experiences bodily and mental suffering.

MN 149

Therefore, by learning to calm the breathing, which also involves calming or stilling the mind, the physical body is also calmed and particularly the ordinary stresses/tensions afflicting & stored in the body are calmed, dissolved, purified, etc.

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“For me, busy &/or unwholesome mental states cause stress in the breathing & body”

Yes, I think that is certainly true. The current state of the body is dependent on conditions.
And the current state of the body will condition things going forward.
The careful in and out breathing can create conditions where the body is no longer stressed or tired.

I recall Bhante Gunaratana at the Bhavana Society once saying that just as there is air conditioning, there is ‘body conditioning’, using the breath.
This seems what
‘passambhayaṁ kāyasaṅkhāraṁ assasissāmī’ti sikkhati, ‘passambhayaṁ kāyasaṅkhāraṁ passasissāmī’ti sikkhati.
is all about.

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Conditioning is too strong, not proper in this context . It needs a much stronger mind to claim to condition or recondition an existing reality. Humans needs continuous repetitive deliberative efforts to be able to do that.

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Also, conditioning is a bit more deliberate, sankhara is general. Seems different. Well, English is my third language, need to confirm.

You seeing, air conditioning is a very specific function, it’s designed this way, more purposeful. Sankara is a general term.

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For a discussion of the active and passive senses of ‘sankhara’, this essay by Ven. Bodhi may be helpful:
https://accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/bps-essay_43.html

a couple of excerpts:

" The third major domain in which the word sankhara occurs is as a designation for all conditioned things. In this context the word has a passive derivation, denoting whatever is formed by a combination of conditions; whatever is conditioned, constructed, or compounded. In this sense it might be rendered simply “formations,” without the qualifying adjective. As bare formations, sankharas include all five aggregates, not just the fourth. The term also includes external objects and situations such as mountains, fields, and forests; towns and cities; food and drink; jewelry, cars, and computers."

" The fact that sankharas can include both active forces and the things produced by them is highly significant and secures for the term its role as the cornerstone of the Buddha’s philosophical vision. For what the Buddha emphasizes is that the sankharas in the two active senses — the volitional formations operative in dependent origination, and the kammic volitions in the fourth aggregate — construct the sankharas in the passive sense: “They construct the conditioned; therefore they are called volitional formations. And what are the conditioned things they construct? They construct the body, feeling, perception, volitional formations, and consciousness; therefore they are called volitional formations” (SN XXII.79)."

So we can say that ‘volitional formations’, or ‘choices’, construct the body.

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Right, in the above sutta the cittasankhara and kayasankhara are all kamma related, passive sense.

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From modern scientific technical terms, I would like to translate Sankara as output, Vedanta as input, sanna as internal processing, vinnana as AI, rupa as hardware. Now everyone understands what a robot human kind is!

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Etymologically speaking, there are many options for how to render this word. Yet, we should never forget that it is ignorance>sankhara that is the basis for dependent origination, “this mass of suffering”. It seems that we should always be trending towards a usage that doesn’t neglect this most significant description.

Though, it will not always be the case that a reference to DO is an explicit. Here is unique passage from SN 22.57

Katame ca, bhikkhave, saṅkhārā? Chayime, bhikkhave, cetanākāyā— rūpasañcetanā …pe… dhammasañcetanā. Ime vuccanti, bhikkhave, saṅkhārā. Phassasamudayā saṅkhārasamudayo; phassanirodhā saṅkhāranirodho. Ayameva ariyo aṭṭhaṅgiko maggo saṅkhāranirodhagāminī paṭipadā, seyyathidaṁ— sammādiṭṭhi …pe… sammāsamādhi.

And what, bhikkhus, are volitional formations? There are these six classes of volition: volition regarding forms … volition regarding mental phenomena. This is called volitional formations. With the arising of contact there is the arising of volitional formations. With the cessation of contact there is the cessation of volitional formations. This Noble Eightfold Path is the way leading to the cessation of volitional formations; that is, right view … right concentration.

This seems to point out that sankhara, from the point of view of the five aggregates, is heavily in the domain of cetana (intention), bound up with contact, and something to practice towards the cessation of via the eightfold path. So DO is implied, though is not the direct focus of this description.

All in all, sankhara has to do with the things that are basis for ignorance, which is to say they are the basis for suffering and samsara, for not knowing the four noble truths. Remember the king from DN 17? When he was about to pass away his wife tried to make him feel good about his life by describing the possessions that defined his life. He was upset by this in his final hour because he now understood those things as, “undesirable, unpleasant, and disagreeable.” When asked how he preferred to be addressed at the end, he said:

Like this, my queen: “Sire, we must be parted and separated from all we hold dear and beloved. Don’t pass away with concerns. Such concern is suffering, and it’s criticized. Sire, you have 84,000 cities, with the royal capital of Kusāvatī foremost. Give up desire for these! Take no interest in life!”’ And so on for all the king’s possessions.

(“Such concern is suffering.” What a HUGE gem!)

Come to find out at this point, that the Buddha was this King Mahāsudassana in the past, at which point he goes on to describe the possessions once again, but now refers to them as sankhara:

Passānanda, sabbete saṅkhārā atītā niruddhā vipariṇatā. Evaṁ aniccā kho, ānanda, saṅkhārā; evaṁ addhuvā kho, ānanda, saṅkhārā; evaṁ anassāsikā kho, ānanda, saṅkhārā. Yāvañcidaṁ, ānanda, alameva sabbasaṅkhāresu nibbindituṁ, alaṁ virajjituṁ, alaṁ vimuccituṁ.

See, Ānanda! All those conditioned phenomena have passed, ceased, and perished. So impermanent are conditions, so unstable are conditions, so unreliable are conditions. This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.

Those possessions were sankhara in the sense they defined his entire life as a king, which is to say they were the things that supported that mass of suffering. And the instructions are so wonderfully concise here: “become disillusioned, dispassionate and free” from what sankhara support.

Whatever word is used, it is the connotations that will matter the most. I don’t think they’ll be a usage anywhere in the suttas that does not in some way apply to the broad meaning described above in DN 17 and in any sutta about DO. As pointed out in AN 9.36 in this post, the principle of sankhara, available on account of jhana, should be used to discern the deathless.

Hope this is useful to the discussion. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Nice direct insight.

I suggest to keep analyze the sutta, also bring your own personal experience as the reference. Sutta explanation should match your own experience if one follow the exact steps of N8FP.

Also, Don’t stuck with structure or current translation. Current translation might be misleading at the time.

Fyi, vayama, sati and samadhi are inseparable in N8FP. Also needs the samma ditthi and morality as foundation.

Good luck and keep going.

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Thinking about your question further, I think I have understood better what you are getting at, and how it relates to Ven. Sujato’s ‘the body’s motion’.

I have to admit I hadn’t thought of the compound kāyasaṅkhāra in this way, i.e. what is being stilled are sankharas produced by the body. Or to put in a somewhat crude way, the body’s relentless march towards further problems.

But if one takes it the other way, which is what I had been doing, that what is being stilled is the ‘sankhara we call the body’, the net effect seems the same: when the body is stilled or tranquilized it stops conditioning future body and mental states, at least temporarily. Sankharas are halted, or at least slowed down.

To put it in a grammatical context, the first way to take the compound if I understand you correctly, is something like, ‘sankhara of/by the body’/ ‘bodily sankharas’, (active sense) and the second, ‘the sankhara which is the body.’ (passive sense)
The compound is singular.

Thank you for this interesting insight and conversation.

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Thank you, for ‘cittasankhara’, my personal interpretation is it is about how the mind (citta) reacts towards the feelings of rapture & happiness. Thus ‘cittasankhara’ could be taken to mean ‘citta’s reaction’. While the definitions in MN 44 are helpful, I have now concluded (for my personal view) to not apply these definitions literally. To say steps 7 & 8 are literally about perception & feeling I now think is inaccurate. As said, for me, steps 7 & 8 are about how feeling affects the citta, i.e., about how the citta reacts to or is conditioned by the feelings. Therefore, the citta may generate greed, love, resentment, confusion, worry, attachment, even enlightenment, etc, towards the feelings. :dizzy:

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Possibly/perhaps the volitions above from the unique passage from SN 22.57 arise after sense contact & are related to the craving (8th) condition of D.O., as follows from DN 22:

But where does that craving arise and where does it settle? Whatever in the world seems nice and pleasant, it is there that craving arises and settles.

And what in the world seems nice and pleasant? The eye in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles. The ear … nose … tongue … body … mind in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Sights … sounds … smells … tastes … touches … thoughts in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Eye consciousness … ear consciousness … nose consciousness … tongue consciousness … body consciousness … mind consciousness in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Eye contact … ear contact … nose contact … tongue contact … body contact … mind contact in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Feeling born of eye contact … feeling born of ear contact … feeling born of nose contact … feeling born of tongue contact … feeling born of body contact … feeling born of mind contact in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Perception of sights … perception of sounds … perception of smells … perception of tastes … perception of touches … perception of thoughts in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Intention regarding sights … intention regarding sounds … intention regarding smells … intention regarding tastes … intention regarding touches … intention regarding thoughts in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Craving for sights … craving for sounds … craving for smells … craving for tastes … craving for touches … craving for thoughts in the world seems nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Thoughts about sights … thoughts about sounds … thoughts about smells … thoughts about tastes … thoughts about touches … thoughts about thoughts in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

Considerations regarding sights … considerations regarding sounds … considerations regarding smells … considerations regarding tastes … considerations regarding touches … considerations regarding thoughts in the world seem nice and pleasant, and it is there that craving arises and settles.

This is called the noble truth of the origin of suffering.

DN 22
:thinking:

What about SN 22.85 and MN 43, for example?

SN 22.85 seems to say the ending of the life of an Arahant is the ending of the five aggregates, including sankkhara.

MN 43 seems to say when entering Nirodha Samapatti (the domain of only Non-Returners & Arahants), the three sankhara of MN 44 end and one sankhara (ayu sankhara) remains.

Do Arahants, free from ignorance, not have sankhara khandha, kayasankhara, vacisankhara, cittasankhara & ayusankhara? :thinking:

Mmm… in SN 54.11, the Buddha himself was said to have practised the 16 stages of Anapanasati, as follows:

“Mendicants, if wanderers who follow another path were to ask you: ‘Reverends, what was the ascetic Gotama’s usual meditation during the rainy season residence?’ You should answer them like this. ‘Reverends, the ascetic Gotama’s usual meditation during the rainy season residence was immersion due to mindfulness of breathing.’

SN 54.11

I think the above may rule out your omnipresent correlation between ignorance>sankhara and may also rule out my hypothesis here ‘sankhara’ means ‘conditioning’ or ‘reaction’. :sob:

It was previously suggested the Bhikkhu Dhammavuddho translation ‘conditioner’. This may cover all scenarios, namely, MN 44, unenlightened reactions in MN 118 and the Buddha’s experience in SN 54.11. :dizzy:

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Interesting questions.

He becomes engaged with form, clings to it, and takes a stand upon it as ‘my self.’ He becomes engaged with feeling … with perception … with volitional formations … with consciousness, clings to it, and takes a stand upon it as ‘my self.’ These same five aggregates of clinging, to which he becomes engaged and to which he clings, lead to his harm and suffering for a long time. - SN 22.85

What ends for the arahant is the “desire and lust therein” (MN 44), i.e. the upadana (clinging) in regards to the five aggregates (described above as “my self”); and it was that very upadana - from the point of view of the aggregates - that was preventing the “disillusionment, dispassion and freedom” towards the whole nature of sankhara described in DN 17 earlier.

(That does sort of fold the nature of sankhara back onto itself, and I think that is precisely what the sutta that @stephen quoted earlier is describing (also from the POV of the aggregates, not explicitly DO): “saṅkhāre saṅkhārattāya saṅkhatamabhisaṅkharonti they construct conditioned volitional formations as volitional formations” -SN 22.79. It seems the matter has to be understood from two points of view, and only when that upadana in regards to the five aggregates has ceased can it be said that the experience is free from conceit; free from one of those points of view taking priority over the other. In other words, all the elements of that mass of suffering remain except that upadana that was a disorder to the whole matter. As a result - bearing in mind the description of sankhara in DN 17 (the possessions that are the basis of suffering) - all of those possessions, most notably - the five aggregates - remain, but no longer indicate suffering, Self, samsara. They are cut off like a palm stump. Yes, I realize that I’m out on a limb here lol)

As far as your question on MN 43, I think it is a matter of the action implied on account of those three sankhara no longer standing for the actions of a Self. Though, as we discussed recently in the other thread, it was not immediately evident that the principle, even at that level of action, was an insight into the broader implications of wrong view and being bound to samsara. In other words, speech, thinking and pondering and breathing remain as aspects of the experience of the arahant, but would lack the subtle yet treacherous significance of being the actions of “I am”. All in all, the arahant is free from the burden of that mass of suffering.

I don’t like this post of mine very much. It is theoretically sound, in that it sets up a framework that accords with the suttas we are discussing, but it is going to put us into the weeds. What I think is paramount in this whole topic is that “desire and lust” in regards to the aggregates described in MN 44. To get anywhere close to understanding why certain things are the sankhara of this mass of suffering the experience needs to be thoroughly developed in virtue, sense restraint, guarded sense doors, seeing danger in the slightest fault, etc… Point being, the only way any of this deeply theoretical information becomes practical is if the lifestyle and effort is properly developed. I’m not saying that this isn’t worth discussing. It is. I just didn’t want to leave this aspect out of the discussion.