Indeed. Hence his apology.
An old man made a mistake speaking his third (?) language, he apologized, the kid seems okay… Seems there isn’t much more to say, eh?
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There’s no disagreement among us that the safety of children, physical and emotional, must be paramount.
I wonder how many Indians and Tibetans at that graduation ceremony saw it as being carried out on the world stage.
There are so many different cultures in the world that if we were all living out our lives on the screens of social media we would be bound to hurt somebody with almost everything we did or said.
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Whole Tibetan community is with his holiness
Here are two videos which will make you super clear about Tibetan cultural view.
Sonam wangchuk is giving another shocking example in his culture which might seem shocking to west.
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I haven’t carefully checked the other comments here, but I thought of making the following points:
If you watch the longer video (of the one that has been circulating), one can get a different perspective. In that video, at the beginning, he couldn’t understand the meaning of the word ‘hug’ (i.e., what the boy asked for) until the translators explained. Also, at the end of the episode, the Dalai Lama gives advice to the boy in terms of cultivating good & peace.
Regarding ‘losing faith’ in the teachings due to these types of things: we need to remember that in the Buddha’s last sermon, he said that after he passes away, his teachings should guide people (rather than another monk or leader). Here’s a quotation from DN 16 (I think):
“However disciples, when I pass away, you may think," the Master’s doctrine is gone and the Master is no more." You should not think so because the Dharma and the Discipline, which I have taught you, will be your Master after my death. "Let the Dharma be your light. Let It be your refuge. Do not seek any other refuge. "Disciples, you should well protect and preserve the doctrine which I advised you to probe so that this holy life may take its course and continue for ages to come for the welfare of many, to console the world, and for the happiness and welfare of the heavenly beings and men.”
I was also thinking that if the Dalai Lama had done this in a private room, hidden from others, then it is possible to interpret it as “wrong behaviour.” But here he is fully aware that many others with cameras are watching and he does not care about that - this means this is simply a very friendly encounter. This encounter can also enable us to understand how conditioned we are when judging other’s right/wrong behaviour- people interpret this type of thing (simply the ‘tongue is out’) as “wrong” due to their past conditioning/baggage - but if we think about it, it is possible to see that our reaction as merely culturally loaded interpretation of what we see. I also found (from a posting) that he had used the English word ‘suck’ to mean the Tibetan word “see” (which is understandable considering that he initially did not understand the word ‘hug’!). So this is NOT about abuse but translational/cultural misunderstandings!
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Even if it’s just the local culture, one should be careful, aware, and full of wisdom (to know that whether this culture if I show it in public will cause problem or not) when doing it so that it doesn’t become a problem for the people who judge it.
According to this accident, we also don’t say things that are careless, especially since later it can cause divisions. This event is a great wind blow that has passed. This wind reminds us to stay aware and be careful wherever, whoever, and whenever we are. Because if we don’t have a strong grip (awareness and caution), we will be blown away by this big wind.
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It is quite obvious that DL is losing his discursive power in the western world,
to reduce collateral damage, we should remove “Message from his Holiness the Dalai Lama” from Visuddhi Magga translated by Bhikkhu Ñaṇamoli Path of Purification
I’d like to add my two cents (Bahts) to what Bhante @sujato said here:
As a Thai, born and bred, and living in that country for many decades, and thus seeing + hearing lots of incidents about monks in Thailand, I’d say that monks in Thailand, including forest monks, are not perfect.
It’s easier to stereotype and simplify our judgement than not to judge at all, or just to accept that human beings in any circle or society — no matter what colour of the skin , what social status, what level of education or training, etc — are not flawless, and there is no single one society in the world, including the Sangha during the time of the Buddha, that only consists of perfect human beings.
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Personally, I think it is unwise to take a for or against stance on if one does not know the Dalai Lama personally.
To me, it is odd behaviour, unacceptable by my standards, and I see the remarks/actions made as inappropriate regardless of the culture. This situation is the person called the Dalai Lama’s karma and only he knows the motivational intention behind his actions. As a result I take the position that anyone who makes a for or against stance for him is speaking hot air if they do not know this individual personally.
Sexual abuse scandals have occurred in all major ‘religions’. The Buddha, dhamma and sangha are immutable/perfect but sadly not all of the individuals who say they are apart of X, Y and Z are perfected. A lot of it gets hushed up but yes it does happen in Tibetan monasteries.
This is why I find it is necessary to operate as an individual who may involve themselves in groups but to be watchful of being labelled together by others. Crabs in a bucket drag you under. What one identifies with and as is not primary. Dhamma practice and realising the Noble Way is primary.
Many young people have been taken away from there Mothers and Fathers & thrown into a monastery. Mothers and Fathers should be fledged in dhamma in an ideal world but bhikkus, monastics, and other sorts, can often mystify the naivete with their outwards display of holiness. A strange dependency occurs and beliefs that they cannot come to attainment come to be ingrained. Bring forth your own Buddhanature. Become an island onto yourself with the dhamma as your central wheel.
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The reaction in Tibet says it all:
[The Chinese Communist Party] has been sharing this maliciously edited video all over Tibet. But in an unexpected turn, Tibetans on the plateau are rejoicing over this video, because they are finally able to see their spiritual leader whose image has been banned for the last half-century. This underscores how little the Chinese government knows Tibetans
From the brilliant op-ed in Tricycle:
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I think the following quotation is a very good point on this issue:
"Regarding the recent incident where HHDL kissed a young boy publicly, on camera, and asked him to suck his tongue.
I looked carefully at the explanations of cultural context, including the “eat my tongue” (tibetan che la sa), and it seems HHDL was not doing anything out of the ordinary from what a Tibetan grandfather would do to his grandson or granddaughter.
Europeans, strangers, kiss each other on the cheek upon greeting.
Italian fathers and grandfathers kiss their young sons and grandsons in the mouth.
Are they also sexual predators, or homosexuals?
Cultural context matters.
Based on all evidence, HHDL is not guilty of any crime."
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Hello Bhante, ok so its a greeting, however is not a greeting used at the beginning of an interaction? Also he kissed the boy. Also the tongue was not out as depicted in ‘greetings’ and he held it for 6 seconds. From my practice I am fully aware of monastic rules concerning physical contact and the DL had the boy in a grip with boy struggling constantly for his personal space. I’m just happy I chose Theravada lol. Metta to you.
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Well, which type of Theravada?
All the Theravadin monks/nuns on this specific forum are on very friendly terms with the Theosophical Society with Annie Besant and Charles W. Leadbeater as leaders.
Leadbeater was first thrown out of the society and forced to resign for admitting himself, in a theosophical court, to have sexually molested young boys….
Just to later be reinstated again in the Theosophical Society by Annie Besant and becoming the most prominent member and leader together with her.
He wrote several books, including books on how to treat children…
When he was reinstated as a member several thousands of members left the Theosophical Society.
The abuse of children of course never stopped and he even held seances with young boys where he told one boy that in a previous life this boy was Leadbeater’s wife!
Even young Krishnamurti was sexually abused by Leadbeater.
I know I know, the mods will now flag this post or delete it and then ban me from this forum, just for pointing out THE TRUTH…
That all sounds interesting.
I’d only sketchily aware of the relationship between Theosophy and early Buddhism in the West. If I recall correctly there was a fair bit of overlap in those circles (and Theosophical Society had a role in the revival of Buddhism in Sri Lanka). IIRC Leadbetter was the “discoverer” of Krishnamutri, their hoped for messiah or “world teacher” who later disowned them. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear about untoward aspects of all that.
However, I also cannot help thinking you are casting an extremely wide net here when you say “All the Theravadin monks/nuns on this specific forum are on very friendly terms with the Theosophical Society with Annie Besant and Charles W. Leadbeater as leaders.” That seems like a very broad-brush attribution. I think there is likely an interesting point in what you say (on possible unsavoury aspects relating to Theravada history) but I’d like to hear more details about all this before I’d really buy into such sweeping conclusions.
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This is, of course, absurd. I’m sure one can make (tenuous) connections between the work of reformers of the 19th century and the modern interest in “EBTs”. However to say that all, (or any for that matter) monastics on the forum are friendly with the Theosophical Society is just silly.
But of course there is no shortage of scandalous behaviour among the entire array of Theravada flavours. Most convert Buddhists never hear about it, though.
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I think it will be better if one just chooses Buddha Dhamma essentially based on SN/SA suttas.
The major collection of the Pali SN and its counterpart Chinese SA is mainly about knowing and seeing the four noble truths, the notion of anicca, dukkha, suñña (empty), anatta, and the middle way, which all are the core teachings of Early Buddhism. E.g. see the following book by Choong Mun-keat:
The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A Comparative Study Based on the Sūtrāṅga portion of the Pāli Saṃyutta-Nikāya and the Chinese Saṃyuktāgama (Series: Beitrage zur Indologie Band 32; Harrassowitz Verlag, Wiesbaden, 2000).
PDF:
The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A comparative study based on the Sutra-anga portion of the Pali Samyuta-Nikaya and the Chinese Samyukta-agama | Mun-keat Choong - Academia.edu
Hello. After a friend raised this matter today, I researched if the Dalai Lama was a bhiksu and found the Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya on this website. After browsing the Mūlasarvāstivāda Vinaya and also 227 Theravada Vinaya rules (List of the 227 rules of pātimokkha), your statement appears to be the case/truth. Regardless of any cultural contexts, I was surprised the Vinaya would not prohibit such displays of physical affection.
Also, how can it be known a monk does not have the lust to enjoy a sensation of physical contact? Must this monk be questioned & interrogated by the other monks?
Also, even if the monk is without lust, the action could generate lust in the recipient of the kiss & tongue. Again, I was very surprised the Vinaya does not cover this situation.
When you study the Vinaya you begin to realize that there are many, many things that are not covered. This is why the Vinaya must be practiced in conjunction with the Dhamma. I really find that the Buddha found a good balance. The Vinaya is very practical and gives enough guidance that one can draw good conclusions on how one should act even when there is no specific rule covering a situation.
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Yes truly I meant that, the Suttas explaining the truth by the Buddha - text does not contain the truth, only points to it.
Yes, indeed, but the SN/SA suttas themselves are still the best teacher for knowing and seeing the truth:
@nisabhobhikkhu Thank you for posting this video, Venerable. I don’t follow the Dalai Lama, but I think he’s a person with a pure heart and and person without sexual lust. Hearing that the Dalai Lama did this and then watching the viral video clip made me think that I was missing something, that things weren’t what they appeared to be. The video’s preface brings together the explanations that make perfect sense.
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