Case Study: Vimalā's Treasures (Therīgāthā Translations Review)

I think I can never exhaust the supply of topics with Therīgāthā!

It’s particularly interesting to note how different translators handle Pāli differently, especially with poetry, which is so much more difficult to translate than prose! So much for me picking it up as my first attempt at translation. Alas, I can’t turn back now. :slight_smile:

I’ve now a sizable collection of various Therīgāthā versions. I picked up Thig 5.2, Therī Vimalā’s Gāthā for a case study to highlight difference between editions, because it’s an obvious bait (!) with its colourful content and but also as a good example as it offers a few key points on where translators diverge.

Bhikkhu Sujato - The Middle Way Gold Standard

Intoxicated by my appearance,
my figure, my beauty, my fame,
and owing to my youth,
I looked down on others.

I adorned this body
all pretty, lamented by fools,
and stood at the brothel door,
like a hunter laying a snare.

I stripped for them,
revealing my many hidden treasures.
Creating an intricate illusion,
I laughed, teasing those men.

Today, having wandered for alms,
my head shaven, wearing the outer robe,
I sat at the root of a tree to meditate;
I’ve gained freedom from thought.

All yokes are severed,
both human and divine.
Having wiped out all defilements,
I have become cooled and quenched.

Bhikkhuni Soma - Intricate Details

Intoxicated with this beautiful body,
as well as glory, success,
and my youth,
I despised anyone who was not my equal.

Dressed in flashy clothes,
prattling on,
I stood at the entrance of the pleasure house,
like a hunter setting traps.

I flaunted my assets
and often exposed my private parts;
I made fun of many people,
and deceived them in many ways.

Today I walk for alms,
with a shaven-head, wrapped in a robe.
Seated at the root of a tree,
I attain absence of thought.

All bonds have been cut off,
both divine and human.
Having cast away all influences,
I have become cool and quenched.

Bhikkhu Mahinda - Exceptional Scholar

Intoxicated with color and beauty, with fortune and reputation too;
Inebriated with youth, I despised others.

Having adorned this body nicely, a topic of prattling for fools;
I stood at the doors of the courtesan house, like a hunter trying to noose

Showing the trinkets, displaying the hidden [body parts] much;
I did various illusions, enchanting many people.

She today having walked on the alms round, shaven-head, dressed in outer double robe;
Sitting down at the root of the tree, is a gainer of calmness of thoughts.

All bonds are fully cut-off, whether divine or human;
All taints are eradicated, cooled down I am, liberated

…Unsoiled (Longtime or Previously) Courtesan…

Susan Marcott - Simple Elegance

Young,
intoxicated by my own
lovely skin,
my figure,
my gorgeous looks,
and famous too,
I despised other women.

Dressed to kill
at the whorehouse door,
was a hunter
and spread my snare for fools.

And when I stripped for them
I was the woman of their dreams;
I laughed as I teased them.

Today,
head shaved,
robed,
alms-wanderer,
I, my same self
sit at the
tree’s foot;
no thought.

All ties
untied,
I have cut men and gods
out of my life,

I have quenched the fires.

Rhys Davids - Extravagant Glory

How was I once puff’d up, incens’d with the bloom of my beauty,
Vain of my perfect form, my fame and success ’midst the people,
Fill’d with the pride of my youth, unknowing the Truth and unheeding!
Lo! I made my body, bravely arrayed, deftly painted,
Speak for me to the lads, whilst I at the door of the harlot
Stood, like a crafty hunter, weaving his snares, ever watchful.
Yea, I bared without shame my body and wealth of adorning;
Manifold wiles I wrought, devouring the virtue of many.

To-day with shaven head, wrapt in my robe,
I go forth on my daily round for food;
And ’neath the spreading boughs of forest tree
I sit, and Second-Jhana’s rapture win,
Where reas’nings cease, and joy and ease remain.
Now all the evil bonds that fetter gods
And men are wholly rent and cut away.
Purg’d are the Āsavas that drugg’d my heart,
Calm and content I know Nibbana’s Peace.

Now, my observation and a few notes:

Ven. @sujato’s work is exceptionally accessible, not just concerning availability but also with its simple and direct language. When some parts are tricky I often fall back to his readings (this case is an exception! Which is why it’s also a nice case). His poetry is elegant without being over-simplified, a great middle ground for phrasing and beauty. And he responds in person on these boards when you have questions about translation - what more can you ask of a simple monk! We’re humbled.

Ven. @ayyasoma’s also greatly accessible and female voice (I have to make this distinction for the sake of this collection - it is a collection of women’s poetry, after all) is very much welcome. I have a feeling she also worked mostly from Ven. sujato’s edition, and retains a similar middle ground in literal phrasing & beauty. And she offers valuable divergences whenever possible.

Here for example, we used to have the “I looked down on other women” in the fourth line by Ven. Sujato (which I see now has changed!). Which was the usual reading across many other writers quoted here and those I didn’t quote (Ven. Thanissaro, Charles Hallisey). Ayya Soma’s divergences are interesting. For example we have “Prattling on”, which is expressed in a way that’s kinda vague, but mostly refers to Vimalā prattling on at the door to her customers, while according to Ven. Sujato, this should mean the chatter of the customers…

Then we have her “I despised anyone who was not my equal.”, which might be incorrect as far as Pāli grammar goes, so we go to another source.

This brings us to Ven. Mahinda’s work, who also apparently started off his Pāli translations with this particular collection as well, and laments that it was probably a mistake due to its difficulty, and his current edition is a correction of his previous work. This is where “I despised others” is found, which is what Ven. Sujato has reverted to in his current edition.

His work is again, exceptionally thorough, often referencing commentaries for clarification, again his book has Pāli-English side by side, and is an invaluable companion for a translator.

Now on to the next two, less literal but very amazing translations!

Susan Marcott and Rhys Davids stand on polar opposites when it comes to attitude! Marcott’s attitude is understated elegance, while Davids’ poetry shouts from the rooftops! A silent confidence vs Courageous Lion’s Roar. It’s amazing to see two women tackle the subject so differently!

Marcott’s edition has most of the gāthā in Thig, she’s excluded some of the longest ones and a few uninteresting (her american words!) ones that are just repetitions of stock phrases. Her book also contains the stories from the commentary, and rather than the arid and inaccessible language of the commentaries, if somebody wants to have a good time and inspiration, her book is a delight to read.

She does have a way of reading a little too modern day feminist in certain passages! Which is perhaps ironic given that she accepts Dhammapala’s commentary as golden and sticks to it devotedly. We can see her “I have cut men and gods out of my life” which, technically might be correct! But it is definitely an interesting emphasis…

Her work isn’t a literal translation, in fact she takes great poetic liberties, but I can’t fault her for it for I love her poetry.

I can’t speak anything ill about Davids’ work, even if it’s not much use to me as a translator. As the pioneer in her field, she translated everything into metric english, which is an incredibly insane feat. As such, the translations are not one-by-one perfect - but even then damn, it’s close enough. She’s one hell of an author and a scholar of Pāli canon - what Ven. Sujato translates as “I’ve gained freedom from thought.”, she translates “I sit, and Second-Jhana’s rapture win” !! This is a brilliant translation, in terms of doctrine and trying to satisfy the meter requirements for english. I can only tip my hat off to her majestic exposition.

I didn’t cover Ven. Thanissaro’s work, which is generally more poetic than the previous 3 monastic editions, but he’s translated only a handful of gāthās. His collection of Thag/Thig is I feel a bit more inspirational concerning their poetry, but he’s done so few of them.

Charles Hallisey also has an exceptional full-coverage of Thig, but I don’t usually find anything in there that I can’t find cross sectioning the three monastic editions, and I have to reduce my bandwidth somehow. Still a great work though.

So there it is! I hope this might prove to be of some inspiration and help to other translators who might mistakenly think it’d be much easier to start with poetry! :sweat_smile:

In the end, Vimalā’s real treasure was her candid expression and inspiration, and so we’re ever grateful to the nuns who were bold enough to renounce the lay life and give us their experiences.

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In Sanskrit translation using the same words as in the Pali (if you are translating it using AI to English to see what it means, I’d suggest making each pair of lines into a single line as the AI then would interpret it closer to what it actually means - as normally each pair of lines deals with a chain of thought and need to be read together):

mattā varṇena rupeṇa saubhāgyena yaśasā ca
yauvanena ca stabdhā anyā atyamaṃsy ahaṃ

vibhūṣyemaṃ kāyaṃ sucitraṃ bālalāpakaṃ
asthāṃ veśyādvare lubdhakaḥ pāśam ivodditam

pinaddhaṃ vidarśayantī guḥyam prakāśitam bahu
akārṣaṃ vividhāṃ māyām ujjakṣatī bahūn janān

sādya piṇḍaṃ caritvānam muṇḍā saṅghāṭīprāvṛtā
niṣaṇṇā vṛkṣamūle’smin avitarkasya lābhinī

sarve yogāḥ samucchinnā ye divyā ye ca mānuṣāḥ
kṣepayitvāsravān sarvān śītībhūtāsmi nirvṛtā - iti

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Bhante @sujato, what do you think about rendering verses in metric (but wiggling around a bit, Matthew to Matty but never to Marie, and keeping any doctrinal element visible and intact), in an attempt to rhyme and keep the musicality?

To give a concrete example here’s how I’d render your translation of Thig 5.2:

Intoxicated by my fame,
figure, beauty and appearance,
and owing to my youthfulness
I looked down, despising others.

And I adorned this body
lamented by fools, all pretty;
and stood tall at the brothel door
like a hunter laying a snare.

I stripped and danced around for them
showing many hidden treasures.
Such an intricate illusion;
oh I laughed teasing those men.

Today, having wandered for alms
head shaven, with the outer robe
at the tree root meditating
I’ve gained my freedom from all thought.

All yokes completely destroyed
whether human, whether divine;
having wiped out all defilements
I have become cooled and quenched.

Of course I’m just counting syllables; it’s not a proper arûz or indic metre. So it makes things much easier but still, I hope it preserves a little bit of verse musicality.

Now I’m glad your translation exists for a scholar (as well as Ven. Mahinda’s, who generally doesn’t care about poetry as much as he cares about faithfulness to the words), but sometimes there are phrases that are obviously made for metric considerations, and I feel like faithfulness to meaning completely renders poems in a more modern tone, sometimes not quite idiomatic in target language, and losing the pastoral music of the Pāli verses.

And it’s kind of harder to rhyme in English, one basically has to substitute a new word (as opposed to in Turkish which has a similar structure to Pāli with prefixes and suffixes, playing around with tenses and/or adverbs, prepositions etc. usually yield a good result).

So far I’ve managed to keep a good chunk of my translations in Turkish metric with gentle touches here and there, but I’d love to hear your opinion. :slight_smile:

I think for example, Rûmi gaining such popularity in English speaking world was due to Fitzgerald’s amazing translations, which I feel follows a similar course and manages to stay loyal to the spirit of the poetry (though he’s still a bit more liberal than what I’m having in mind). And I should add, Rûmi’s Rubāʿiyāt is also a religious work (and his translations aren’t without debate either).

I think Rhys Davids for example overshoots, even though her translations are a delight to read I must admit. Surely there can be a middle ground, no?

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If you are interested in this sort of thing, be sure to check out Lord Chalmer’s Snp. (The pages are off by one so the English and Pali don’t line up, btw)

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Thanks a lot for this Bhante! I’ve only briefly looked at it, but I think it’s a more humble translation than Davids’ and is interesting to analyse.

For example, here’s a bit of SNP4.8:

Pāli

Idheva suddhī iti vādayanti,
Nāññesu dhammesu visuddhimāhu;
Yaṁ nissitā tattha subhaṁ vadānā,
Paccekasaccesu puthū niviṭṭhā.

Te vādakāmā parisaṁ vigayha,
Bālaṁ dahantī mithu aññamaññaṁ;
Vadanti te aññasitā kathojjaṁ,
Pasaṁsakāmā kusalā vadānā.

Yutto kathāyaṁ parisāya majjhe,
Pasaṁsamicchaṁ vinighāti hoti;
Apāhatasmiṁ pana maṅku hoti,
Nindāya so kuppati randhamesī.

Lord Chalmer

Each claims that Purity
abides with him alone,
-but not in rival creeds;
and, though no two agree,
each vaunts his nostrum sound.

Hot for debate, they meet
each dubs the other ‘fool’;
with party arguments
these ‘experts’ wrangle on,
posing for public praise.

Eager to win the day,
debaters dread defeat,
sit glum when posers come,
and writhe in shame when floored.

Bhante Sujato

“Here alone is purity,” they say,
denying that there is purification in other teachings.
Speaking of the beauty
in that which they depend on,
each one is dogmatic about
their own idiosyncratic interpretation.

Desiring debate, they plunge into an assembly,
where each takes the other as a fool.
Relying on others they state their contention,
desiring praise while claiming to be skilled.

Addicted to debating in the midst of the assembly,
their need for praise makes them nervous.
But when they’re repudiated they get embarrassed;
upset at criticism, they find fault in others.

My Metric

“Here alone is found purity,” they say,
“No other teaching can purify you.”
Speaking of the beauty they depend on
many are stuck to their personal truth.

Desiring debate, they plunge into a forum,
where everyone considers all others as fools.
Relying on others they state their contention,
desirous of praise while claiming to be skillful.

Addicted to debates in these forums,
their need for praise is making them nervous.
When they’re repudiated they’re ashamed;
mad at criticism, they find others’ faults.

For example, here I’ve used 10-12-10 metre; if it’s easy I try to keep metre in all quartets (like Thig 5.2 above), but with longer poems it can get hairy and you might need to get a little too creative for my taste.

Also, my English not being native, my examples might be wonky; these are just examples of how far I think it’s acceptable to bend (for example, visuddhiṁ, purification, becoming purify you, etc).

Despite (or thanks to) the creative liberties Lord Chalmer takes, I think it’s some very interesting poetry. A little more conservative approach (and not trying to make each quartet the same metre) could yield better results I think.

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