Collecting taxes vs second precept

[faujidoc1]

Views are a product of causes.

We are all Ignorant to begin with… actually our delusion is so great that we don’t even know what we don’t know.

When we encounter ‘X’ for the first time, we need to decide how to respond. Our views are shaped by many factors .. the state of mind we were in, where we chose to focus our attention, the feelings and perceptions elicited by ‘X’, what we had been led to believe by prior social conditioning, the views of our friends and family, etc. etc.

One can see the wide diversity of views in this thread itself.

Those who come from countries where social security works and where governments function reasonably well can be expected to be in support of taxation. Because they have seen the advantages.

Those who come from countries where literally nothing works and where government has turned into a gigantic wealth extraction mafia operation can reasonably be expected to abhor taxes. Because they have seen the disadvantages.

Each looks at the Other and wonders … how could they be so far off the mark?

IMO, whenever we come across something challenging it is an opportunity to grow our understanding of Dhamma. We need to go beyond the attachment to views.

Most lay people are expected to be tax payers. Whatever we may think about taxes - good or bad - government expects us to pay… and is ready to apply force if necessary.

So, the correct dhamma to apply is IMO, MN21

Even if low-down bandits were to sever you limb from limb with a two-handed saw, anyone who had a malevolent thought on that account would not be following my instructions.

If that happens, you should train like this:

Our minds will not degenerate. We will blurt out no bad words. We will remain full of sympathy, with a heart of love and no secret hate

Aren’t taxes much easier than parting with a limb? Pay we must.. why not do it happily?

Let’s not forget, even corrupt tax collectors can go to heaven (MN97).

That said, there are always other options.

Come to Dubai, habibi!

I did… 10 years ago.

[Invo]

In my opinion the idea of taxation of course makes sense it itself, like it’s presented in the suttas, to support the poor (DN26), to protect from the criminals (DN27) etc.

Problem is how they are implemented and how the money gathered from taxes are used.

1. Bhante Sujato stated in this thread that without “redistribution of goods” the rich will always use the poor. The way I see the problem is that the taxes are hurting mostly the poor, at least in my country. The taxes are so high that poorer people barely can “survive”. So I think reducing taxes and removing obligatory social insurance institution would help the poor to have a decent living.
2. The second problem is that the way money from the taxes are used. The best examples for me are military and medicine. Money is spent for war or medications and medical procedures that most of the time either don’t work, or make things worse. The idea that a government makes decision for everyone how their money is spent, and that it is sustained by force is problematic.

So I can see where both sides are coming from.

Btw. not all people who are for reducing taxes are right wing. There is an option to reduce taxes for the poor, and increase taxes for the rich. In this way we can connect freedom with protecting the poor. The rich won’t feel as much the high taxation, and the poor can choose how they spend their money.

So you can be a leftist in spirit (wanna to protect the poor etc.) but achieve it more through “right-wing” way - to just reduce the taxes for the poor to make their life much easier to create their own businesses etc.

No need for a very heavy “protective state” to achieve the goal of helping the poor. If government would take less from the poor, it would be much easier for them to live. The sad reality is that majority of taxes are paid by the poor, and they are suffocated by it, only to see how their money is spend on idiotic things, at least in my country.

[dastharak]

Second precept IMO is related to the individual level of integrity regarding how wealth is earned. Tax on the other hand is a collective enforcement by the governments.

How to evaluate them is more of an ideological question rather than a moral question, that is in the sense that questions such as “Is taxing a morally correct thing ?” are mostly academic.

In colonial Sri Lankan there was a time that people were taxed so inhumanely that they started a civil uprising against the government. OTOH even during the USA’s ‘tax free’ period government used other means such as tariffs and excise taxes to collect money. A government - even a small one in right-wing ideology - needs some wealth to operate. As the famous saying: “Nothing in this world is certain except death and taxes”. To what extent the tax is reasonable/acceptable is a complex matter.

So I would argue that neither collecting tax nor avoiding it(legally) breaks the second precept.