I’m curious to know if there are any vegan monks and nuns within this community.
In my experience, I’ve met some monastics who seem to hold double standards when it comes to animals. While I understand that their primary focus is on humans, which is certainly important, I’ve noticed that the environment often takes precedence over the well-being of animals, who, like humans, are sentient beings capable of experiencing suffering. These beings have evolved alongside us since the beginning, yet they continue to face prejudice and suffering at the hands of the majority of humans.
I am aware of certain individuals who embody compassion toward all sentient beings and practice veganism, such as Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Thiền Buddhist monk, and Jeong Kwan, a Buddhist nun.
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts and learning more about how the principles of compassion in Buddhism might support a vegan lifestyle.
Thank you for pointing that out. I did use the search feature but didn’t find the information I was looking for. I appreciate your suggestion, but I’m seeking a more specific answer to my query about vegan monastic communities. As mentioned in the scriptures, the path to understanding often involves direct inquiry and discussion. Perhaps sharing your own insights or experiences on this topic could be more helpful. Thank you for your patience.
Thank you very much for following veganism, especially considering how challenging it can be for monastics like you. While Buddhism indeed supports the principles of veganism, it is unfortunate that many monastics do not embrace it, leading to many laypeople actively turning away from Buddhism. By the way, where in Malaysia are you located? Do other monastics in your community follow veganism as well? I have been looking for a monastery that follows veganism and teaches meditation in Asian countries.
Wow, I had never heard before that people can be attached to veganism more than the Dhamma. It is unfortunate in this case. Dhamma is far more important.
Melaka for now, next Taiping. Both monasteries here I live with, I am basically the only vegan maybe another one is vegetarian or something, I don’t really keep track.
Maybe next time, if I got my own centre and I am teaching. I plan to make the monastery I am in totally vegan. And also night owl. So people don’t have to wake up so early. There’re night owls people who are more alert at night naturally, so I think it’s a disservice to have so many monasteries waking people up before dawn. So yes, it would be one meal a day kind of monastery.
P.S.
Also, for the monasteries whose principle is that they eat whatever that is offered, if everyone offers vegan food, by default the monks become vegan. So it’s actually that the vegan Buddhists should play an active role to convert other Buddhists to be vegan if you wish to see the change in that local monastery.
Do people consider the difference between Vegetarianism and Veganism? One seems to be fine with nature (you just stop eating meat and nothing happens), while the other one, as I am told, requires artificial meal supplements in order to stay healthy. Is this level of asceticism still in line with Dhamma?
This is false. 99% of the time, a vegan will be fine just avoiding animal products and junk food. The natural tendency to get sick of eating the same food over and over will lead to you getting complete protein and micronutrients.
The only real thing a normal person will need to be aware of with a vegan diet is b12, the vitamin you need the least of. Even on a normal passive diet, you’ll most likely avoid actually getting sick from b12 deficiency (b12 comes from plants, but it’s more concentrated in animals), but supplementing promotes optimal health, especially for pregnant people (who should be taking prenatal vitamins anyway). But it’s a tiny tiny amount you need to supplement for optimal health. Like one Red Bull a decade or, more practically, like three glasses of commercially sold soy milk a day. Very comparable to how omnivorous diets require fluoride and iodine supplementation for optimal health.
Veganism does make it harder to put on muscle (for maximum hypertrophy using whole foods you’d basically need to have like 75% of your diet be soybeans), which can be important if you were living an unhealthy lifestyle, your muscles are too weak, and you need to put on muscle to restore health. But it’s very easy to get enough protein to maintain muscle mass.
For an already healthy person, veganism is fine. The reason we inherited micronutrient dependencies is because the mutations that turned off our (largely herbivorous) ancestors ability to synthesize these chemicals bore no evolutionary cost in terms of survival.
Many people don’t even attempt veganism to see for themselves if it works, which means they’re missing out on the direct experience that the Buddha emphasized as essential. We need to recognize that the world we live in today is vastly different from the time of the Buddha, who lived over 2,500 years ago. Today, we have access to advanced science, medicine, and essential vitamins that weren’t available back then.
The Buddha restricted the consumption of certain animals because the society of that time demanded it. He allowed monastics to eat meat because his primary focus was on spreading the Dhamma, and food options were limited. Understanding this historical context is crucial. Moreover, the Buddha instructed monastics serious about achieving Nibbana to avoid accepting alms if they suspected the food had been specifically killed for them.
Compassion, a core teaching in Buddhism, serves as an antidote to one of the three poisons—hatred. This is not merely a suggestion; it’s a fundamental aspect of the Dhamma. Embracing veganism, which aligns with compassion, isn’t extreme; it’s a logical extension of Buddhist practice. A plant-based diet is entirely achievable for most people. While a few individuals may have medical conditions preventing them from thriving on a plant-based diet, ask yourself: are you really one of those few?
Still it doesn’t seem to me that milking a well kept cow or taking some eggs out of a chicken’s nest does great harm to these animals.
I would only grant this level of worry to somebody of an already highly sophisticated character in other areas of life, like intepersonal relationships or right livelihood.
The efforts to allow women’s ordination are significant and commendable. However, it is worth noting that some monastic communities do not follow vegan or vegetarian practices. This raises important questions about how contemporary ethical issues like animal welfare are addressed within the framework of Buddhist teachings on compassion and non-harm. Understanding these practices is crucial for those of us who strive to align our actions with the core principles of Buddhism.
Concerns About Promoting Meat and Dairy Consumption
It’s troubling to see some monks promoting meat and dairy consumption when discussing veganism, which can make some vegans feel disheartened. This isn’t about being overly attached to veganism; it’s about staying true to the Dhamma as taught by the Buddha.
Eating meat always involves killing, as you can’t consume meat without it coming from a dead animal. Humans rarely consume meat from naturally deceased animals due to hygiene and disease concerns. Thus, the act of consuming meat typically involves slaughtering animals, which directly violates the first precept of avoiding harm to any living being. Some suttas describe how butchers accumulate significant negative karma due to the killing of animals, leading to immense suffering. Monastics have a responsibility to educate others about the negative karma from such actions and the resulting suffering. By promoting compassionate living and the avoidance of harm, monastics help guide laypeople toward more ethical choices and a more responsible livelihood.
Consuming dairy and eggs breaks the second precept, which advises against taking what isn’t freely given. Even in the Buddha’s time, taking milk and eggs from animals could be considered theft because these resources are not meant for human use. This principle is still relevant today, whether in traditional or modern farming contexts.
If someone misrepresents the ethics of eating animal products or claims it aligns with Buddhist principles without acknowledging the harm, it could violate the fourth precept on avoiding false speech. Supporting industries that cause animal suffering can also affect mindfulness and ethical behavior, relating to the fifth precept.
Promoting practices that contradict compassion, wisdom, and generosity, which are the antidotes to hatred, ignorance, and greed, can undermine the core of the Dhamma. For many, veganism is a way to fully embody these principles, demonstrating compassion for all sentient beings and staying true to the Buddha’s teachings in daily life.
Another principle that monastics have to think about is being easy to support. Personally I would prefer to eat vegan and plant-based, but it doesn’t feel right to tell the lay supporters what food to bring, it feels better to just eat whatever people want to offer.
But I’m grateful when people give vegan food it would be great if more people were vegan.
I, for my humble part, do not appreciate the “Buddhism made me be friends with the birds and the bees and I am now having a bath by candlelight” kind of posts.
Because for starters, these lovely birds and bees eat each other for breakfast.
But it seems to me that getting inspired by nature is irreconcilable with Buddhism. Just yesterday on my window, I watched a spider slowly wrapping a conscious bug and basically devour it alive.
And I’ve seen a cat befriend and pet a mouse, feeding it with his food. Is that not inspiring?
Nature, as always, has both. Blanket statements like “Being inspired by nature” of course is problematic. But even nature has a way of inspiring with good qualities. For example, reason bees are different from wasps is because they stopped cannibalising each other, so I’ve learned from a biologist friend.
Humans bomb each other too - should we cast off all humans as well? I think buddhist perspective is to look to the doing instead of doer, and so we can find admirable qualities all around.
The set of phenomena or appearances commonly called “nature” are inescapable and compulsory to any human being and are therefore an axiom of our relative perception.
In my limited definition, these people are not Buddhist. You cannot have as the cornestone of your teaching the complaint against the Dukkha of death and illness (1st noble truth) and at the same time act to bring these over other human beings.
or, more practically, like three glasses of commercially sold soy milk a day. Very comparable to how omnivorous diets require fluoride and iodine supplementation for optimal health.
it would be great if more people were vegan.