Contemporary definition of jhana

[daverupa]

P.S.

Indian samanas and Siberian shamans and all the faith-folk in between all come from the same prehistoric peoples (with their phosphene rock art), and these practices developed in complex ways over time & geography such that we see the variety we do today.

From this chronologically extended point of view, all of these practices can be called one sort of jhana or another; so it seems to me that the specifically Buddhist jhanas described in the EBTs are a combination of generic local jhana paired with the Buddha’s innovation of “letting go”. (We are not learning basic jhana in the EBTs, we are learning how preparatory Buddhist practices - guarded sense gates, satipatthana - interact with basic jhana to result in the basic descriptions we have.)

I also think that the formless meditations are brahmanical, and not originally part of samana practices; the melting pot of contemplative traditions during the second urbanization period in India piled all this stuff together, and with the historical development of Buddhism the issue ends up landing in front of us as a thoroughly confused mess.

Also, jhana is fully subjective so there’s no way to compare them directly. Notice how the Visuddhimagga gives a giant list of nimitta, and you start to see the problem with trying to categorize everyone’s subjective contemplative experiences. Once we understand the basic gist of the terms for one or another jhana in one or another contemplative tradition, we really are on our own.

Ancient & modern peoples have struggled with both how to describe these experiences, and how to discover & explain the mechanisms underlying them. It’s all quite complicated.

[Mat]

@Media

At a certain point the meditation object fades away or stops (depending on the object - breath or mantra)

This fading of the breath happens as samadhi deepens. I believe this the ceasing of the body (of the breath) in the fourth tetrad of the anapanasati sutta- MN118. [breath also ceases in the fourth jhana, but not tenable in your situation- see below].

@Media

At this point the body is no longer discernible, there is no discernible sensory input or thinking (verbal or sub-verbal) thoughts, but it’s prior to the bit where a bright light appears in the mind (even if eyes are closed and its a dark room, so the light can’t be external eye base).

Absence of verbal thought is usually in the second jhana. But it can happen randomly at anytime (as you might have experienced, even when not in meditation, so it is not a definite sign of the second jhana). Appearance of a bright light (called uggaha or patibhaga nimitta in later texts) is when the mind is purified in the 5th to 8th tetrad- more likely to be 7th tetrad. Changes of light can be sensed in coarse jhanic attainments as well, so this is harder to quantify, without further practice. If I were to guess my gut feeling is that you are in the nimitta. Keep watching the breath and go deeper- many get attracted by the light and go searching for it. The breath that brought you to this place should not be abandoned. Stay with the breath and you will go deeper. I think the 12th Tetrad is the jhana, so there maybe more to practice.

with metta

[SarathW1]

@Media

In your understanding of the suttas, would this be at some point prior to first jhana, at first jhana or at a jhana further along the sequence or even one of the immaterial absorption’s?

I suggest you forget about the Jhana description for a moment.
Instead, practice the preparatory instructions.
Do not try to eat the elephant at once.
Try to understand the first Jhana first.
Could you tell me what you understand by the first Jhana?

[Mat]

@daverupa

Indian samanas and Siberian shamans and all the faith-folk in between all come from the same prehistoric peoples

Are you certain? I thought they lived quite apart in time.

with metta

[daverupa]

I’m saying that they both trace their history back to the same sorts of folk; back far enough, you see, before there were either one of them. They both end up with separate sets of practices & beliefs about them, that’s the point. We could call it all “jhana”, or we could specify Iron Age Indian jhanas, or current Buddhist jhanas, etc.

[amimettalove]

I think more than wondering what the jhanas are, we should and can practice them by following the instructions in the Suttas. With the withdrawing of sensuality (not paying attention to sense stimulus) and unskilful qualities (abandoning/letting go the 5 Hindrances as they arise without aversion to them), aka, letting go of all that arises without aversion and gently returning to the chosen meditation subject, and releasing and knowing the hindrances.

We can access Jhana and it’s not something far out impossible state to achieve. It does take time, meaning at least 45 mins to 1 hour or longer to achieve of consistent daily practice.

Bhante Vimalaramsi gives valuable insight about the jhanas on his YouTube channel and talks as he’s always talking about and teaching the Jhanas.

Leighton Brasington’s teacher was Ayya Khema and when you listen to her talks on YouTube, the message is clear. Jhanas are attainable.

The best way to know what they are is to practice enough and be mindful enough throughout the day that we too can enter them regularly.

Buddhist meditation Jhana Ayya Khema 1

What is a Jhana? Commentaries vs Suttas - Meaning?

[amimettalove]

Also, Doug Kraft’s book Buddha’s Map is excellent.

http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/BuddhasMap.html

Easing Awake

His YouTube channel has an at home retreat on it and it’s really worth doing. It’s Metta based.

[Gabriel]

I don’t think the suttas are that easy re. jhana and samadhi - people can read and still have questions.
For example, the whole set is called ‘samma-samadhi’, but if you look into the jhana-formula, the term ‘samadhi’ appears only in the second jhana (avitakkaṃ avicāraṃ samādhijaṃ)
Personally I see at least two other classic dhamma that describe the samadhi-process without referencing jhana.

1. the ‘pamujja-series’, i.e. pāmujja --> pīti --> passadhi --> sukha --> samādhi.

2. the bojjhangas: sati (pre-jhana ‘establishes sati in front of him’) --> dhammavicaya (1.jhana) --> viriya (not in jhana)–> piti (1+2 jhana) --> passadhi (sampasādana?) --> samadhi (2.jhana, and up?) --> upekkha (3+4 jhana)

[SarathW1]

@Gabriel

I don’t think the suttas are that easy re. jhana and samadhi - people can read and still have questions.

The way I understand when you practice Jhana you attain Samadhi.
Jhana may not be the only way to attain Samadhi.
Perhaps you can attain Samadhi by taking drugs but it is not Samma Samadhi.

[Gabriel]

I was referencing completely valid sutta-samadhi…

[Mat]

@amimettalove

Jhanas are attainable.

True.

But for how many? Not everybody. It is a ‘rate limiting step’.

with metta

[Media]

@Mat

Absence of verbal thought is usually in the second jhana. But it can happen randomly at anytime (as you might have experienced, even when not in meditation, so it is not a definite sign of the second jhana).

Yes. Large chunks of the day are spent without verbal thought, all those automatic things like doing the washing up can be very happily spent without thinking, just attending to the dishes. But this isn’t the same as it’s not so much an absence of thought but more of an impossibility to direct the mind to thought, if that makes sense. It not that I don’t think, it’s more that I can’t think at this stage.

@Mat

Keep watching the breath and go deeper- many get attracted by the light and go searching for it.

Heh! Yes I know that one! If I go searching, it never comes. It’s only when I give up and wait in the silence without expectation that it comes. The attitude that I adopt is one of making myself worthy of gifts that I have already been given, not seeking out new gifts.

@Mat

The breath that brought you to this place should not be abandoned. Stay with the breath and you will go deeper.

mmm… so I’m not sure that this is possible, or it would (figuratively) mean a turning around and that would take an extreme amount of effort at this point to summon the will into action. For me there is just a natural glide into and through the light. But I’ll definitely give it a go and see what happens.

I have found a table on Wikipedia regarding the Ānāpānasati Tetrads that you mention comparing with Satipaṭṭhāna - which I found useful. Is it an accurate representation?

@SarathW1

Try to understand the first Jhana first.

Could you tell me what you understand by the first Jhana?

Up until recently I hadn’t even heard of jhana, but I have meditated in a different tradition for most of my life. I’m retired now and so I’m doing a little digging into other spiritual traditions. So this is really part of me gaining an understanding of what the Buddha meant when he talked about first to fourth jhana and the immaterial absorption’s. I’m trying to map what the Buddha said with experience so that I can then see what else is required from a Buddhist point of view. Things like right speech seem so clearly stated and easy to map against experience, but right concentration seems less obvious to me and it seems there are large differences between teachers. Having said that, my current understanding is that jhana in general are ‘states of being’. And first jhana is that state the other side of the light that I talk about above. I say this because it is such a seismic shift from the usual reality which is this side of the light.

Thank you for the videos @amimettalove, I look forward to watching them to get some different perspectives.

@amimettalove

Jhanas are attainable.

Yes. I’ve no doubt that they are, but what I’m trying to get to is an understanding of what they are? Say you wanted to nail two bits of wood together. You would probably need a nail and a hammer. The hammer is probably attainable, but if I mistook a screwdriver for a hammer, then the job would be rather difficult or maybe even impossible.

[SarathW1]

@Media

I’m trying to map what the Buddha said with experience so that I can then see what else is required from a Buddhist point of view.

I think you got the right approach.

[amimettalove]

@Mat

True.

But for how many? Not everybody. It is a ‘rate limiting step’.

The jhanas are attainable for everyone or the Buddha would not have taught them as the definition of Right Concentration. Otherwise it would be the Noble 7 and sometimes 8 fold path.

I think the issue is really dedication and whether someone is setting themselves and their minds up to be conducive to and to lean into Jhana. If one watches a lot of TV for example or plays a lot of video games or listens to a lot of music or creates/participates in worldly dramas and does not let go (intention of renunciation) the aggregates and the Hindrances then by definition they will have challenges with Jhana and any sort of deep transformative meditation at all.

However, if one is very mindful throughout the day, reads Suttas, meditates twice or more daily for at least 45 mins, Jhana is attainable. The Buddha repeatedly said, if it wasn’t possible, I wouldn’t teach it…and this must be for Jhana also as it is such a critical key step (8the step) on the path that we must take.

Of course doing longer retreats is helpful, but there is no reason why Jhana cannot be entered in lay life. It just may take a more extended sitting practice of 1 to 2 hours per day and even per session.

The thing I’ve seen over the years is that short meditations, while helpful, simply are not enough to make any serious progress towards deeper meditation and developing concentration strength and moving towards Jhana. Remember that wanting Jhana is a sense desire and will block it. It is only by continual renunciation of all that arises except the wholesome object of meditation that will provide the soil for Jhana to be revealed and entered. It’s not really entering though as in entering a room, it’s more that we’re already in the room and we have to let go of everything that is blocking our perception of the room by clinging to thoughts and sensory input, aka the hindrances and the aggregates.

[amimettalove]

I think you will find Leigh Brasington’s book the most helpful. I do mainly loving kindness and the book talks more about anapanasati, however he states Metta is another object.

Bhante Vimalaramsi says, and this is my experience also, that Metta is much faster at producing Jhana.

Here is my theory why.

The 7 factors of enlightenment/awakening are:

• Mindfulness
• Investigation of dhamma/phenomena
• Energy
• Rapture/Joy
• Serenity/tranquility
• Concentration
• Equanimity

This is in order of the cultivation and realization of the jhanas. First mindfulness is used to let go of the Hindrances and attachment to the jhanas, you do that by investigating the phenomena/dhamma that arises and letting it go (can’t let it go unless the mindfulness sees it), Energy is required to overcome sloth and torpor and Metta is very uplifting by nature, then Rapture and joy arise due to seclusion from unwholesome states and the hindrances, then tranquility comes (think sukkha overtaking piti in 2nd Jhana and thought seriously diminishing or stopping), as this happens in the 2nd Jhana the mind becomes very very collected and concentrated on the object without wavering much at all, then the piti leaves ( is abandoned) and the Equanimity becomes prodominant with some sukkha still but this really deep imperturbable Equanimity.

The factors of awakening really describe all 4 jhanas because in the 4th pleasure and pain disappear and there is only deep deep, unshakeable Equanimity.

So, anapana can and will lead to all the jhanas, however Metta fulfills more of the factors of awakening as a result of the practice itself and leans towards Jhana more easily in my experience.

• Metta requires mindfulness to start

• Metta analyses dhamma in that the mindfulness creates wholesome mind states/wishes of good will and abandons unwholesome states (discernment is required here /aka analysis of qualities/dhammas)

• Metta creates Rapture very easily (much more easier than anapana due to the fact that the practice is to arouse thoughts/feelings of happiness/joy and good will and this gladens the mind/ body automatically and progressively

• When the mind is producing good will joy and serenity arise (think of the feeling of relaxing at the beach. The mind just becomes peaceful by being in the sun. Metta is our inner sun, all we have to do is allow the clouds/hindrances to clear by gently bringing our attention back to wishing/feeling/radiating good will

• This joy and Rapture become stronger as we begin to shift from the thinking Metta to the feeling that becomes apparent immediate or with time and produces strong concentration as we continue to use Mindfulness to re-collect the mind back towards sending/feeling Metta (think of gathering awareness)

• Deep Equanimity is created/realized due to no unwholesome states.

Metta by definition is Right Effort. (Abandoning unwholesome and cultivating wholesome mind states.

Anapana works, but why not at least do some Metta at the beginning to incline the mind towards the factors of awakening, if not use Metta as one’s meditation subject for the entire sitting.

The Kariyana Metta Sutta states that loving kindness can provide complete deliverance from rebirth.

I hope this is helpful. My intention is to help others to make real progress. This community is so wonderful. It is so wonderful that we analyse the Suttas together and learn from each other. However, it is important to remember and heed the Buddha’s words about practice and knowledge and get on the cushion.

From Pairs - The Dhammapada

"19. Much though he recites the sacred texts, but acts not accordingly, that heedless man is like a cowherd who only counts the cows of others — he does not partake of the blessings of the holy life.

“20. Little though he recites the sacred texts, but puts the Teaching into practice, forsaking lust, hatred, and delusion, with true wisdom and emancipated mind, clinging to nothing of this or any other world — he indeed partakes of the blessings of a holy life.”

Going to sit now.

Thank you for reading.

[Mat]

@Media

mmm… so I’m not sure that this is possible, or it would (figuratively) mean a turning around and that would take an extreme amount of effort at this point to summon the will into action. For me there is just a natural glide into and through the light.

It can be done both ways. As you say, the breath can be ‘summoned’ back or use the nimitta as the object for further progress. The problem with the light is that it is shaky and doesn’t present a very good object because of that, IMO, whereas the breath is always present, but you might find the light easier for now.

@Media

I have found a table on Wikipedia regarding the Ānāpānasati Tetrads that you mention comparing with Satipaṭṭhāna - which I found useful. Is it an accurate representation?

Yes it is straight from MN118 the Anapanasati sutta. I think you are somewhere in the second tetrad of development, but again it is hard to say.

Good luck with your meditation!

[amimettalove]

I wonder how useful it is focusing on Nimittas when, to the best of my knowledge, the Buddha never instructed us to focus on any lights, except if using the perception of light to overcome sloth and torpor.

When I stayed at Wat Pah Nanachat, Ajahn Kevali instructed us to just stay with the breath and disregard any Nimittas.

What I have read in Leigh Brasington’s book says to just know that this is a sign post and to not bother with it and only switch to a pleasant feeling when the access concentration (notified by the presence of light and or slowing/cessation of breath).

The Buddha did say to focus on Rapture and joy in the anapanasati Sutta and so it might be best to follow the Buddha’s advice directly instead of the commentaries which can lead off into endless diversions from the Buddha’s direct and original teachings and instructions.

[Adutiya]

I have a close friend, we talk on the phone for an hour each week, have been for almost 12 years. I know him intimately well and have a pretty clear grasp of the scope of his meditation practice. He’s been meditating a long time but it doesn’t resemble anything Buddhist; no consideration of right mindfulness, right concentration, the hinderances, factors of awakening, those types of disciplines.

A couple of years ago he had a few one-on-one consultations with Doug Kraft, described to him his meditative experiences and Doug told him that he was experiencing 4th jhana. I am not a judge of another, but if that friend told me that he experienced 1st jhana I would be highly, highly skeptical. Based on what my friend said to Doug, I was quite literally stunned that he could come to the conclusion of 4th jhana.

I don’t like being critical of a person! Please let me know if this is out of line and I’ll delete this post!

[amimettalove]

What I gather from Doug Kraft and Bhante Vimalaramsi is that the jhanas are not as unattainable as we think. The Buddha simply would not have taught them if they were unattainable.

I can’t say for sure, but it is possible that there are grades of Jhana, but from my experience, what Doug explains in the series on his Easing Awake youtube channel and what Bhante Vimalaramsi explains in his dhamma talks on his youtube channel, I have experienced the 3rd jhana many many times. I can’t say for sure about the others, but I have had some experiences of there being nothing inside and I’m not sure if this is the 7th jhana or not.

In Leigh Brasington’s book, he says it is possible to skip jhanas, say from 4th to 6th, for example.

Here is an explanation of the instructions for entering the 1st jhana by Leigh Brasington.

The thing I know is that this topic doesn’t need to be as nebulous or hyper analysed as it is. We can experience Jhana, it does have an affect on our lives, but there are levels of jhana from what I understand (experience and fruit?).

All I can say for sure is that longer meditations are needed to access jhana and it has to be consistent every day for any chance at getting there. In my experience, it takes minimum 45 minutes to get there and the cumulative effect of daily long sits increases the likelihood of reaching a jhanic state.

The Buddha taught this path that is hard, but attainable. We need to be mindful all day long to make it easier to get somewhere in our meditations when we sit down in stillness. We need to sit daily, at least twice a day and for minimum 30 minutes to 45 or long per session to make and serious progress, although there is benefit to any amount of meditation.

The other thing I know is, we can’t know what someone else’s experience is and we should seek counsel of those who have great experience in meditation (could be exceptional lay teachers like Doug Kraft or Leigh Brasington also). Bhante Vimalaramsi knows things and reads the suttas in ways I have not heard many monastics talk about things and that tells me that he has experience in the jhanas and not just from reading about them.

The best thing we can do is actually get to work. The Buddha extolled a sense of urgency in the practice. Every moment counts and over thinking the practice is not practice. It’s like thinking about playing hockey and playing hockey being a completely different experience. We must get on the ice and skate and in this sense get on our cushion and meditation with great zeal and effort (gentle but great effort).

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/thag/thag.01.00x.than.html#passage-39
Tissa (Thag 1.39) {Thag 39}

As if struck by a sword,
as if his head were on fire,
a monk should live the wandering life
— mindful —
for the abandoning of sensual passion.

This is a reminder for me. To sit more, to dedicate more of my life and energy to mindfulness and meditation so I can reach the Jhanas with some regularity and therefore purify my mind.

We are here together, supporting each other and so we are stronger together, but we must all do our own work.

I wish anyone reading this great luck, motivation, energy and success in their meditation as I wish this for myself.

May we all reach the end goal in this lifetime. Who knows what the next life will bring if we don’t make it out of Samsara.

Metta

[amimettalove]

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/jhana-2.html

Here is a good website with instructions on how to enter each Jhana. Of course the higher you go, the more ambiguous the instructious get because each arupa jhana is less and less tangible.

Ayya Khema and Bhante Vimalaramsi are the ones with the most clear instructions on the Jhanas as well as Leigh Brasington and Doug Kraft, however if there are other instructions and teachers that are clear and direct please share.