Continuity of karma through eons

Hi All,

Does anyone know any suttas that speak on how one’s karma is “transported” from one eon to the next one after destruction? If so, could you please share? Also, if I’m understanding incorrectly, please share your thoughts/knowledge.

Thank you!

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I am not too sure, maybe this part of the DN1 Brahmajālasutta can satisfy your need?

There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos contracts.
Hoti kho so, bhikkhave, samayo, yaṁ kadāci karahaci dīghassa addhuno accayena ayaṁ loko saṁvaṭṭati.
As the cosmos contracts, sentient beings are mostly headed for the realm of streaming radiance.
Saṁvaṭṭamāne loke yebhuyyena sattā ābhassarasaṁvattanikā honti.
There they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.
Te tattha honti manomayā pītibhakkhā sayaṁpabhā antalikkhacarā subhaṭṭhāyino, ciraṁ dīghamaddhānaṁ tiṭṭhanti.

There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands.
Hoti kho so, bhikkhave, samayo, yaṁ kadāci karahaci dīghassa addhuno accayena ayaṁ loko vivaṭṭati.
As it expands an empty mansion of Brahmā appears.
Vivaṭṭamāne loke suññaṁ brahmavimānaṁ pātubhavati.
Then a certain sentient being—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—passes away from that host of radiant deities and is reborn in that empty mansion of Brahmā.
Atha kho aññataro satto āyukkhayā vā puññakkhayā vā ābhassarakāyā cavitvā suññaṁ brahmavimānaṁ upapajjati.
There they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.
So tattha hoti manomayo pītibhakkho sayampabho antalikkhacaro subhaṭṭhāyī, ciraṁ dīghamaddhānaṁ tiṭṭhati.

But after staying there all alone for a long time, they become dissatisfied and anxious:
Tassa tattha ekakassa dīgharattaṁ nivusitattā anabhirati paritassanā uppajjati:
‘Oh, if only another being would come to this state of existence.’
‘aho vata aññepi sattā itthattaṁ āgaccheyyun’ti.
Then other sentient beings—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—pass away from that host of radiant deities and are reborn in that empty mansion of Brahmā in company with that being.
Atha aññepi sattā āyukkhayā vā puññakkhayā vā ābhassarakāyā cavitvā brahmavimānaṁ upapajjanti tassa sattassa sahabyataṁ.
There they too are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the sky, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.
Tepi tattha honti manomayā pītibhakkhā sayaṁpabhā antalikkhacarā subhaṭṭhāyino, ciraṁ dīghamaddhānaṁ tiṭṭhanti.

Now, the being who was reborn there first thinks:
Tatra, bhikkhave, yo so satto paṭhamaṁ upapanno tassa evaṁ hoti:
‘I am Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born.
‘ahamasmi brahmā mahābrahmā abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthudaso vasavattī issaro kattā nimmātā seṭṭho sajitā vasī pitā bhūtabhabyānaṁ.
These beings were created by me!
Mayā ime sattā nimmitā.
Why is that?
Taṁ kissa hetu?
Because first I thought:
Mamañhi pubbe etadahosi:

“Oh, if only another being would come to this state of existence.”
“aho vata aññepi sattā itthattaṁ āgaccheyyun”ti.
Such was my heart’s wish, and then these creatures came to this state of existence.’
Iti mama ca manopaṇidhi, ime ca sattā itthattaṁ āgatā’ti.

And the beings who were reborn there later also think:
Yepi te sattā pacchā upapannā, tesampi evaṁ hoti:
‘This must be Brahmā, the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born.
‘ayaṁ kho bhavaṁ brahmā mahābrahmā abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthudaso vasavattī issaro kattā nimmātā seṭṭho sajitā vasī pitā bhūtabhabyānaṁ.
And we have been created by him.
Iminā mayaṁ bhotā brahmunā nimmitā.
Why is that?
Taṁ kissa hetu?
Because we see that he was reborn here first, and we arrived later.’
Imañhi mayaṁ addasāma idha paṭhamaṁ upapannaṁ, mayaṁ panamha pacchā upapannā’ti.

And the being who was reborn first is more long-lived, beautiful, and illustrious than those who arrived later.
Tatra, bhikkhave, yo so satto paṭhamaṁ upapanno, so dīghāyukataro ca hoti vaṇṇavantataro ca mahesakkhataro ca.
Ye pana te sattā pacchā upapannā, te appāyukatarā ca honti dubbaṇṇatarā ca appesakkhatarā ca.

It’s possible that one of those beings passes away from that host and is reborn in this state of existence.
Ṭhānaṁ kho panetaṁ, bhikkhave, vijjati, yaṁ aññataro satto tamhā kāyā cavitvā itthattaṁ āgacchati.
Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness.
Itthattaṁ āgato samāno agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajati.
By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right focus, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they recollect that past life, but no further.
Agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajito samāno ātappamanvāya padhānamanvāya anuyogamanvāya appamādamanvāya sammāmanasikāramanvāya tathārūpaṁ cetosamādhiṁ phusati, yathāsamāhite citte taṁ pubbenivāsaṁ anussarati, tato paraṁ nānussarati.

They say:
So evamāha:
‘He who is Brahmā—the Great Brahmā, the Undefeated, the Champion, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord God, the Maker, the Author, the First, the Begetter, the Controller, the Father of those who have been born and those yet to be born—is permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, remaining the same for all eternity.
‘yo kho so bhavaṁ brahmā mahābrahmā abhibhū anabhibhūto aññadatthudaso vasavattī issaro kattā nimmātā seṭṭho sajitā vasī pitā bhūtabhabyānaṁ, yena mayaṁ bhotā brahmunā nimmitā, so nicco dhuvo sassato avipariṇāmadhammo sassatisamaṁ tatheva ṭhassati.
We who were created by that Brahmā are impermanent, not lasting, short-lived, perishable, and have come to this state of existence.
Ye pana mayaṁ ahumhā tena bhotā brahmunā nimmitā, te mayaṁ aniccā addhuvā appāyukā cavanadhammā itthattaṁ āgatā’ti.
This is the first ground on which some ascetics and brahmins rely to assert that the self and the cosmos are partially eternal.
Idaṁ, bhikkhave, paṭhamaṁ ṭhānaṁ, yaṁ āgamma yaṁ ārabbha eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā ekaccasassatikā ekaccaasassatikā ekaccaṁ sassataṁ ekaccaṁ asassataṁ attānañca lokañca paññapenti.

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Samsara is without beginning and end, including eons. Incidentally the Buddhist view differs from the western scientific, which is based on samsara. Becoming a Buddhist demands a new world view that is human centred yet not indulgent, like the application of karma where the reults of one person’s actions bear clinically to them only.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca1/samsara.html

The unconditioned element (nibbana) is separate from samsara.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca3/nibbana.html

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Hello Isabelle

If you have doubts about this subject, I also have doubts about it.

There are scriptures that say an “eon” (“kappa”) is literally a very very long time, such as:

When an eon contracts, it’s not easy to calculate

Yadā, bhikkhave, kappo saṁvaṭṭati, taṁ na sukaraṁ saṅkhātuṁ—

how many years, how many hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands of years it takes.

ettakāni vassānīti vā, ettakāni vassasatānīti vā, ettakāni vassasahassānīti vā, ettakāni vassasatasahassānīti vā.

SuttaCentral

Or:

“Suppose there was an iron city, a league long, a league wide, and a league high, full of mustard seeds pressed into balls.

“Seyyathāpi, bhikkhu, āyasaṁ nagaraṁ yojanaṁ āyāmena yojanaṁ vitthārena yojanaṁ ubbedhena, puṇṇaṁ sāsapānaṁ guḷikābaddhaṁ.

And as each century passed someone would remove a single mustard seed.

Tato puriso vassasatassa vassasatassa accayena ekamekaṁ sāsapaṁ uddhareyya.

By this means the huge heap of mustard seeds would be used up before the eon comes to an end.

Khippataraṁ kho so, bhikkhu, mahāsāsaparāsi iminā upakkamena parikkhayaṁ pariyādānaṁ gaccheyya, na tveva kappo.

That’s how long an eon is.

Evaṁ dīgho kho, bhikkhu, kappo.

SuttaCentral

However, there is at least one sutta paragraph (about the Buddha’s potential time left on Earth) which indicates “kappa” (generally translated as “eon”) is not a very long time:

Whoever has developed and cultivated the four bases of psychic power—made them a vehicle and a basis, kept them up, consolidated them, and properly implemented them—may, if they wish, live on for the eon or what’s left of the eon.

Yassa kassaci, ānanda, cattāro iddhipādā bhāvitā bahulīkatā yānīkatā vatthukatā anuṭṭhitā paricitā susamāraddhā, so ākaṅkhamāno kappaṁ vā tiṭṭheyya kappāvasesaṁ vā.

SuttaCentral

I find the following sutta is interesting because I imagine a person who can bring harmony to a broken Sangha would probably be enlightened and destined for Nibbana:

“But sir, what does someone who has created harmony in a schismatic Saṅgha bring upon themselves?”

“Bhinnaṁ pana, bhante, saṅghaṁ samaggaṁ katvā kiṁ so pasavatī”ti?

“They bring divine merit upon themselves.”

“Brahmaṁ, ānanda, puññaṁ pasavatī”ti.

“But what is divine merit?”

“Kiṁ pana, bhante, brahmaṁ puññan”ti?

“They rejoice in heaven for an eon, Ānanda.

Kappaṁ, ānanda, saggamhi modatīti—

SuttaCentral

Below is another standard sutta:

“But sir, what is the evil that lasts for an eon?”
“Kiṁ pana, bhante, kappaṭṭhikaṁ kibbisan”ti?

“They burn in hell for an eon, Ānanda.
Kappaṁ, ānanda, nirayamhi paccatīti—

A schismatic remains for the eon
Āpāyiko nerayiko,

in a place of loss, in hell.
Kappaṭṭho saṅghabhedako;

Taking a stand against the teaching,
Vaggarato adhammaṭṭho,

favoring factions, they destroy their sanctuary.
Yogakkhemā padhaṁsati;

After causing schism in a harmonious Saṅgha,
Saṅghaṁ samaggaṁ bhinditvā,

they burn in hell for an eon.”
Kappaṁ nirayamhi paccatī”ti.

SuttaCentral

About the results of kamma, the suttas generally say these remain until they are exhausted, as follows:

And there they feel painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings—but they don’t die until that bad deed is eliminated [exhausted].

So tattha dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedeti, na ca tāva kālaṁ karoti, yāva na taṁ pāpakammaṁ byantīhoti.

SuttaCentral

The lifespan of the gods of Brahma’s Host is one eon.

Brahmakāyikānaṁ, bhikkhave, devānaṁ kappo āyuppamāṇaṁ.

An ordinary person stays there until the lifespan of those gods is spent [exhausted], then they go to hell or the animal realm or the ghost realm.

Tattha puthujjano yāvatāyukaṁ ṭhatvā yāvatakaṁ tesaṁ devānaṁ āyuppamāṇaṁ taṁ sabbaṁ khepetvā nirayampi gacchati tiracchānayonimpi gacchati pettivisayampi gacchati.

SuttaCentral

Therefore, I am not sure about if all kamma or most kamma will be “transported” from one eon to the next one. Possibly some kamma last less than an “eon” (even though the meaning of the word “kappa”, translated as “eon”, seems unclear). For example, AN 3.100 (SuttaCentral) says some kamma can last for a relatively very short time. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I don’t quite understand your question but if a karma is ripe it should take effect. I don’t think you need an eon to ripen your karma. Unless you’re a Brahma I think.

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