Criticism of other religions on a Buddhist forum?

[basho]

@silence

The question I would like to ask the SCDD community is whether it should be deemed appropriate on a Buddhist forum to discuss other religions, taken as whole, in negative terms.

You may find the answer you are looking for in the Eightfold Noble Path/Right Speech.

[silence]

I agree. I wish everyone did

[Vstakan]

@silence

In today’s volatile climate, what if there happens to be a large number of them, so that they team up

Is it not a sociological generalization? My point is that structurally this reasoning is not that different from what we would like to prevent from happening on a Dhamma forum. Just insert ‘fundamentalist far-right Christians’ or ‘Muslims’ instead of ‘them’, and voilà! here you have it.

[silence]

I am not sure what you are trying to convey. I speak of people who for example explain us why some people should be bombed from a place of compassion. Those I would lump together in such considerations are people who adopt on Buddhist forums rhetorics that are directly opposed to the core principles of the Dhamma. This is based purely on behavior, not on sociological categories. Whether or not said people map onto a particular sociological group is beyond the scope of my inquiry.

[suaimhneas]

I’d wonder at the usefulness of criticizing other religions on Buddhist forums. One would mostly be preaching to the converted (people raised as Buddhists or people in the West likely raised as Christians but ending up as Buddhists, obviously finding it superior). Such discussions could potentially be interesting and challenging, provided they were done respectfully and pitted against someone with a certain knowledge of Buddhism but deeply knowledgeable in their own religion, e.g. I’ve no doubt Advaita Vedanta has long-standing well-rehearsed arguments where its own basic principles run up against Buddhism’s. Otherwise one may end up poking at nothing more than a “straw man” caricature of the religion. Such discussions are unlikely to happen on Buddhist forums though (such people being unlikely to be on them ).

[Mat]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong in understanding the drawbacks of another doctrine- often people come to such Buddhist forums without having fully thought through the old faiths they might still at an unconscious level be still clinging to- sometimes it is very much conscious. Rarely there may be ‘crusaders’ challenging and undermining the dhamma and they need to be addressed. If there is true understanding of the dhamma and true compassion, will you enlighten people to reduce suffering or simply let them suffer indefinitely? This is partially humorous and partially serious, and of course it must be done sensitively and respectfully (the Buddha called people ‘fool’ but that was because it was culturally acceptable at the time, while other vices or virtues switched places, with time).

If people on this forum cannot do this, who can?

with metta,

[dharmacorps]

@Mat

often people come to such Buddhist forums without having fully thought through the old faiths they might still at an unconscious level be still clinging to

This is exactly the point I was going to make-- especially the Judeo-Christian faiths come from a totally different orientation in terms of world view. This is not discarded even in western atheist circles because there is still the idea of the one lifetime perspective, or the eventual progress until some exalted state. That or “perfecting the world” type ideas which largely have roots going as far back as the Talmud. One of the most important things for western converts is to thoroughly examine the baggage we carry, I think.

[Mat]

@dharmacorps

the most important things for western converts is to thoroughly examine the baggage we carry, I think

This is equally true for eastern students of the dhamma (we are all students after all). Centuries of cultural encrustation need a different point of view to rub up against, so that we might all see with new eyes, particularly eyes of the dhamma!

EBTs pose a subtle but crucially different view point from the modern religions that evolved out of the degradation of the Buddhas message over time, which is lost in the detail when one lives in Asian countries. There is also much to be learnt from ‘humanistic’ values from people of Western cultures that have become lost in formulaic versions of moral behaviours in the East. I think the cross-cultural pollination is essential to breathe life into the practice…

In the end even in a single culture, every single person carries a slightly different world view, so it make sense to explore it all, just like the Buddha did in his heyday.

with metta

[Nadine]

@Mat

the Buddha called people ‘fool’

I totally heard Mr. T’s voice when I read that.

[Peter_Durham]

@silence

I would agree as long as such individuals remain exceptions. In today’s volatile climate, what if there happens to be a large number of them, so that they team up, even infiltrate the mod team and render such ideas mainstream on the forum, so that they creep even in discussions on Dhamma topics?

I guess you a thinking of Dhamma Wheel, silence.

[Jhana4]

I have never seen anything good come from people of one religion criticizing another religion.

I go to Buddhist forums to read about Buddhism, not other religions.

[Coemgenu]

@Vstakan

The Buddha did criticize other religious teachings so why cannot we? I think it is, however, important to criticize ideas and practices and not people.

Also criticize them correctly.

Inept and lackluster critiques of X religion are a dime-a-dozen on “Buddhist” forums. There is nothing more anti- than an ex-, even if that ex- was only ever a nominal “-”.

There is nothing more presumptuous about a religion than an ex-member of X religion. Ex-members of X religion always have a thorough grasp of X religion. Don’t you know? They converted away from it, obviously they completely understood it.

[Coemgenu]

@Peter_Durham

@silence

I would agree as long as such individuals remain exceptions. In today’s volatile climate, what if there happens to be a large number of them, so that they team up, even infiltrate the mod team and render such ideas mainstream on the forum, so that they creep even in discussions on Dhamma topics?

I guess you a thinking of Dhamma Wheel, silence.

Too savage!

#whenthealt-rightisyourmoderation

[silence]

Speaking of unmoderated inappropriate speech on a Buddhist forum that is enabled by the volatile climate… I just came across these

Vast stretches of America are deserted … how is one going to stay at the house below (6:28) without a gun?

Not my country … not my problem … but how is the man in that house going to defend himself from a nutcase meth addict who breaks in … by throwing the Dhammapada he was reading?

I fully support killing in self defense and would do so without any hesitation if I or any one else was in danger.

Killing nutcases and malevolent people who threaten others is “wholesome and profitable”.

Yes of course I am a Buddhist … I would spare no enemy who threatened the Dhamma … that kind of Buddhist

I would protect the Dhamma by slaying its enemies if needed

if a meth head broke in and threatened my child … I would blow his brains out with a shotgun. It would keep me in a more neutral state than any harm to my child.

This is what happens when the partisan worship of “free speech” is considered more important than right speech.

[awarewolf]

That posting I regard as an attempt to just stir it up, and not ill will. And it’s also from a part of the forum which gives anybody a decent chance to make a fool out of one self, so it’s actually a bit sweet in a hysterical way …

[ERose]

Fortunately, wise people can make them shut up with insights from an objective impression

/endsarcasm

Can we agree, there are opinions about religions in everyone? If one is careful about speaking from experience, and qualifies that speech as only one’s opinion, it can be more useful than any tacit knowledge. It is all conditioned, neh?

[awarewolf]

Heartily agreeing

[Thanuttamo]

@silence

In today’s volatile climate, what if there happens to be a large number of them, so that they team up, even infiltrate the mod team and render such ideas mainstream on the forum, so that they creep even in discussions on Dhamma topics?

Dear Silence,
I’d like to share in this connexion a related approach set out in the vinaya. If one finds oneself as a bhikkhu against a transgressing majority of bhikkhus one may simple state to oneself: “This is not allowable”, and remain silent …

Mettā

[dharmacorps]

I don’t want to make this thread about another forum, but I disagree with the characterization of the moderators on DW. There is more room under the terms of service there for all sorts of speech, even outlandish speech, which is often mistaken for moderator support of that kind of speech. It has to be said, also, that political or ideological bias is hardly confined to DW. All forums have their own flavor. If you don’t like it, don’t log in. Or ignore it. Or start your own forum.

[Kalia]

@dharmacorps

All forums have their own flavor. If you don’t like it, don’t log in. Or ignore it. Or start your own forum.

Well spoken, dharmacorps.

.