SuttaCentral
Hi
Has there ever been a school of thought in Bhuddism that interpreted the list of 12 Nidanas as a description of a process of emanation, with the ignorance causing the emanation and the ignorance needing to be ended in the individual basically being the same?
Thanks
I think that sounds like something from Theosophical Society’s exegesis.
Do you mean emanation as specifically from a monad / non-dual prime cause ? Perhaps a Vajrayana / Mahayana school would have something like that.
Yes, by ignorance. The same ignorance that then within us, as individual products of that emanation, causes the attachments.
Just the first thing that came to mind when reading the list.
Theosophical society. That’s interesting. Haven’t parked my car there recently
Hi,
And yet ignorance is also a process of causes and conditions, not a “root” source or “thing”, as in AN10.61:
"I say that ignorance is fueled by something, it’s not unfueled. And what is the fuel for ignorance? You should say: ‘The five hindrances.’ "
It’s causes and effects, processes arising and ceasing, from top to bottom until nibbāna.
In some Mahayana teachings an ever-present ineffable Buddha-Mind is taught. But not in the Nikāyas.
Yes, and my thought was that the 12 Nidanas as a list would make sense on this individual level as well as on the cosmological level. Here too, ignorance would have to be seen not as a root, but as a first cause of setting in motion the process of emanation.
What are your thoughts on the cosmology of MN49?
Also from AN10.61:
"“Mendicants, it is said that no first point of ignorance is evident, before which there was no ignorance, and afterwards it came to be.
“Purimā, bhikkhave, koṭi na paññāyati avijjāya: ‘ito pubbe avijjā nāhosi, atha pacchā samabhavī’ti."
Also from SN15.3:
"“Mendicants, transmigration has no known beginning.
“Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro.
No first point is found of sentient beings roaming and transmigrating, shrouded by ignorance and fettered by craving.
Pubbā koṭi na paññāyati avijjānīvaraṇānaṁ sattānaṁ taṇhāsaṁyojanānaṁ sandhāvataṁ saṁsarataṁ.
Are you referring to " viññāṇa anidassana?
If so, you may wish to have a look at:
Also, the All and the World of the N8FP and experiences are “within” the senses and aggregates, so to speak. The practice is not so concerned with “external” reality, whatever that may be.
As in SN35.23 and SN12.44
I think if you get into East Asian esoteric Buddhism (tantra) Vairocana is treated as an emanation.
This is interesting and may add another twist.
But I was just thinking about the basic content of MN49: The superior Brahma (apparently thought of as Creator God) is portrayed as being ignorant, with Mara the Evil One trying to keep him trapped in his ignorance.
Doesn’t this imply that creation happened out of ignorance (and that the Brahma would possibly reverse creation, would he know better)?
I’d agree in terms of “creation” of saṁsāra, but not regarding external reality.
Buddhas Emanate it is said, as they are Cessated, so their appearance can be akin to an Emanated body of light.