It seems to be a transgression of the Vinaya. regardless of the cause. As I see it, just more privileges. Doing good does not provide special entitlements to transgress or engage in worldliness, including politics, commercial publishing, etc, etc, etc. How long is a piece of string?
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Very long, apparently. Iâd rather see Buddhism evolve into what Bhikkhu Bodhi is doing vs. more of the above. Thatâs just me. I do feel he has earned the right to be an exception to a general rule that monks and nuns should avoid worldly behaviors, such as music. Your point is well taken, @Deeele. I want people in the west to see, feel and embrace, and be brought into the Dhamma of the ancient texts; thereâs so much benefit there; a goldmine of wellbeing that is largely ignored in the US. Iâd suggest that BB sees what he does as a âskillful means,â and with him, I have no objections at all.
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I disagree. Look at the Buddha, the numero uno of all arahants, yet He never abused the privilege of that top position. He conducted himself in perfect accordance with the Vinaya. And yes, weâre talking about the âNumero Unoâ. Maybe the worldâs most learned and renowned, but yet-to-be enlightened venerable should pause for a moment and contemplate on this key point.
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My original post was a much harsher criticism of the other worldly adventures of BB. I removed it. Definitely donât have agreement from me. I have seen non-meditation monks on this worldly path before, which starts with translating, then politics, then with social activism, feminism, interfaith, then with disrobing & sexual relationship. It appears unrelated to bhikkhuhood. The Buddhist lay people can start & operate the charities. A monk can be a figurehead & advisor. As with many of BBs controversial activity, the style does not appear Buddhist but closer to his prior personal socio-cultural background that infuences much American âBuddhismâ, such as when Bhikkhu Thanissaro rebuked BBs case for âpreemptive just warâ as âTalmudicâ. I find playing self-indulgent American jazzy music on modern expensive instruments for poverty to be rather strange. Classic American âphilanthropyâ, which occurs at not change of lifestyle for the wealthy. Kind regards. 
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With the limited knowledge I have about copyright law, I believe copyrighting translation work create problems for future translators.
I think any particular sentece can be translated in limited number of ways. Say only three ways to translate a particular sentence. If three people translate it and copyright it the forth will not have a chance.
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Agree. It seems rather bizarre that a translation can be copyrighted. It seems like âcovetousnessâ. 
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Based on what you wrote above, Iâm glad I didnât read what you deleted. Oy vey.
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I have never seen anything like this. Wow. I am stunned. Iâm wordless, which is unusual for me. This seems like the kind of âslippery slopeâ arguments like, âas soon as we give gays the right to marry, the next thing will be people marrying animals.â Look at the life of the Buddha, a life filled with translating the Dhamma for the aptitudes of the varied groups that he met. Recall the Buddhaâs activities interacting with kings, counseling government leaders. Social activism? Was not the Buddha the worldâs most profound social activist, turning Vedic tradition and teaching on its head, and promoting equality and justice? Feminism? What great spiritual leader has done more (considering his time and culture) for equality and justice for women? Interfaith? Brahmins and Jains all around, and the Buddhaâs constant dialogue with the same? Youâre kidding me, right?
From his position as a renunciant who stood outside the conventional social order, he looked with deep concern on struggling humanity, enmeshed in conflict while aspiring for peace, and out of compassion he sought to bring harmony into the troubled arena of human relations, to promote a way of life based on tolerance, concord, and kindness. But he did even more. He founded an intentional community devoted to fostering inner and outer peace. This task was thrust upon him almost from the start; for the Buddha was not a solitary wanderer, teaching those who came to him for guidance and then leaving them to their own devices.
Bodhi. The Buddhaâs Teachings on Social and Communal Harmony: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon (The Teachings of the Buddha) (Kindle Locations 385-390). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.
You really believe that Bhikkhu Bodhiâs compassion and engaged action derives from being born Jewish? Did Ven. Thanissaro really say such a thing? Oy vey again. I believe at the heart of Ven. Bodhiâs compassionate action is the Dhamma, and the life of the historical Buddha.
Measure the actions of any activist, feminist, socially engaged monk against the life of the Buddha, and the positive comparisons will be obvious. The kind of bhikkhuhood that you describe is one that will stagnate the life of the Dhamma, and not cultivate it. There are, of course, non-activist non-engaged monks and nuns, and Ven. Bodhi has previously stated clearly that one must act in accord with each personâs own interests and aptitudes; there is no âone size-fits allâ approach. Itâs my opinion that courageous Bhikkhus like Vens. Bodhi, Brahm, Sujato, Brahmali, and others of the same fabric will inspire Buddhists, cultivate saddha and positive energy in the Dhamma and practice, and encourage intelligent and spirited young men and women interested in a life of going forth to strive to become the next generation of enlightened western monastics. The lay community will benefit, as well. The Dhamma will be enlivened, energized, and its longevity guaranteed.
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I did say I have actually seen it. That is why I find nothing particularly admirable about these types of personal activities. They do appear to be âdistractionsâ to me.
Definitely not. My post was in line with the Vinaya training, which exists for a purpose.
Buddha taught orally. He translated nothing.
Those people visited & consulted the Buddha, who was definitely not a social activist. As I wrote, BB can be a figurehead & advisor for a charity but the charity, imo, should be run by laypeople. This would also show the laypeople are getting the basic message.
No. The Buddha (unlike Jesus who coveted the temple as his own & turned over the tables of the money-changers) was not like a Judaic-Christian activist. The Buddha advised those who consulted him. More overt but closer to the Taoist sage in the Tao Te Ching. His demeanour brought people to him. He was not a fisher of men or a Judaic revolutionary seeking to breakdown the existing social order.
Feminism does not have moral values. It is merely political movement about political & economic rights, which also promotes sexual promiscuity, liberalism & abortion (which BB seems to believe are âwomens rightsâ). These are unrelated to Buddhism. They are Western & often Judaic ideas.
The Buddha allowed women to become nuns and asserted a womanâs authority in the home. In other words, unlike feminism, the Buddha with equality placed very strong moral expectations upon women. For example, unlike feminism, the Buddha never declared prostitution & pornography âempowerâ women.
In the EBTs, the idea of âequalityâ means to make an immoral person your moral equal; to make a stream-enterer your equal as an arahant, etc. âEqualityâ in the EBTs means to pull people up rather than drag them down into defilement.
No. Brahmins & Jains in dialogue with the Buddha rather than Buddha in dialogue with them. Buddha giving Buddhist values to those religions rather than bringing those other religious values into Buddhism.
While I personally would not place these three bhikkhus in the same boat; they are all Westerners; which gives the impression of a certain âhubrisâ in your post (which has been discussed before here).
Again, this makes monastics sound like priests, rabbis & evangelists. To me, it sounds like a Western model. It sounds Mahayana. At least for myself, I did not come to Buddhism to save the world but to find peace from the unsatisfactory & imperfect world. I think monastics ideally should display there is a way out from the dukkha of this unsatisfactory, imperfect & defiled world rather than embrace âCreationistâ ideas that we can make a perfect world.
Kind regards
This is the best of gifts: the gift of Dhamma. And this is the best of friendly speech: to teach again and again Dhamma to those who wish for it and who listen attentively. And this is the best of helpful acts: to arouse, instil and strengthen faith in the unbeliever; to arouse, instil and strengthen virtue in the immoral; to arouse, instil and strengthen generosity in the niggard; to arouse, instil and strengthen wisdom in the unwise. And this is the best bestowal of equity: if a stream-winner becomes equal to a stream-winner; a once-returner equal to a once-returner; a non-returner equal to a non-returner; and an arahant equal to an arahant. This, monks, is called the power of benevolence. AN 9.5
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I think you stretch the idea little bit but I understand what you are getting at. Monk in my home town set fire to the temple forest and started planting banana trees. We all started to wonder what happen to this monk. Few years after he left the robe and we found that he had a relationship with a woman.
Where mind goes where body goes. Where body goes where mind goes.
I am a little disappointed that Wisdom/PTS (Bhikkhu Bodhiâs translations are jointly published) has not moved to the model that BPS has, who reissued, for example, the Visuddhimagga as both a PDF and a book for purchase.
However, distribution, and long-term preservation, of texts is not a simple matter. When Bhikkhu Bodhi started on this translation path, entrusting the publications to reputable non-profits (Wisdom/PTS) would have been the only way to guarantee good quality texts that would be sold and deposited in libraries, thus making them readily available for future scholars. The advent of internet distribution has changed part of the game - the distribution side. However, long term preservation (for many decades) is a different issue, and is something that academic journals struggle with. Distributing the files is relatively cheap. Keeping software and formats up to date is less trivial.
I am not sure in what way or to what extent Bhikkhu Bodhi benefits from the selling of his translations â I would be interested how he himself would state his status quo. Even if he personally would refrain from accepting any monetary benefits from the book deals, the allowance that dhamma is just connected to commerce quite clearly violates the spirit of the Buddha and has to be avoided. Another discourse, found in the sa.myutta nikaya, where it is reported that the Buddha declined a meal for a verse he had sung, might be additionally adduced. He might have given it to benefit somebody else, though he refused to do so, maintaining that such behavior is not the custom of Buddhas.
Also laity securing a livelihood through the selling of dhamma material would entail mentioned violation. To my mind it feels as well very improper to get a wage for selling dhamma which advocates again and again so vehemently the giving up of sensual pleasures just to do things with it which actually are sometimes, or even in may cases, nothing but sensual pleasures, something which is to be expected for laity â with all due respect for their potential and often inspiring ethics and practice. There are countless ways laity can make a living other than selling dhamma.
A way to keep things pure is similar to what Sujato wrote: Providing printed books for sale for those who want to have a hard copy â here the price should not exceed the printing and other related costs (in the case of non-Buddhist publishers), so that just for these money is paid, not for dhamma â and simultaneously providing free digital versions. That this does work very well also in the West can be observed. Also, if we give people a chance to develop a culture which does respect and uphold the above mentioned Buddhist principle of free giving in the realm of dhamma than people will make usually use of such a chance, if the material is worth it.
One personal example: I very frequently hear that a monastic could not go on alms round in Western countries and actually receive something â the culture is just not right, the people maybe even rather stingy compared to the populace of Buddhist countries. Yet I personally received only one single time (I stopped counting out of how many occasions) nothing ( where I stood not very long, by the way), the other times mostly enough and even not seldomly plenty â the people had an opportunity is my point, and made use of it.
Mettaa
A. Bhikkhu
I have the same wish than you to see people embracing the dhamma of the ancient texts and I admire many things Bhikkhu Bodhi does and his skill and activities in translation (though I disagree with how it is distributed) and other fields to help promoting this wishâs fulfillment.
But it is due the preservative character of Theravaada-Buddhism in terms of vinaya practice (among other essential qualities, e.g. the attempt of minutely accurate textual transmission and proper practice) that this tradition does provide the most authentic access to what the Buddha has taught. A laxity in vinaya does have, according to the Buddha, a detrimental effect also on his soteriological teachings, some rules to a lesser, some to a greater degree. A deviation from and often even well meaning tolerance of changes to originally established monastic practices can be seen as partly manifest in other ancient and modern expressions of Buddhist tradition, without wanting to denigrate valuable parts which they contain â in the long run the monk wakes up as a priest with the woman next to him âŚ
As santa100 said, status does not exempt a bhikkhu from following the way of the vinaya, as this would cause also other bhikkhus of lesser stature to follow this example (among other ramifications) â an exemption can not be earned according to the Buddha, is not possible, even for Arahants. Skillful means would imply for me therefore that the vinaya is upheld.
Mettaa
A. Bhikkhu
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evidence is clear as day. example:
lemonade stand â free lemonade â no revenue
lemonade stand â sell lemonade â revenue
Well, thanks so much for the lemonade, it was very refreshing! 
A more accurate comparison would be that if children are giving away free lemonade at a stand, does that impact the sales of lemonade in the local Walmart?
Regardless, metaphors and opinions are meaningless. This is an empirical fact and has been studied as such. The studies show there is little to no measurable impact on revenue. I have been looking into this topic for several years and have yet to find a single meaningful study that shows the opposite. If you find one, I would love to see it.
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From where I sit (SF area, California), there are quite a few wealthy, some exceedingly wealthy, people donating lots of money to the local IM/VM (Insight/Vipassana Meditation) operations. SRMC (Spirit Rock Meditation Center) recently completed a $25 million expansion (second mediation complex, non-temporary public event hall, etc.) And, aside from the big donors, the public at large is relatively well-to-do; participation in retreats there cost $1500-$2000 / week (and the floors in the dorms are heated â âthe upper-middle wayâ).
IMC (Insight Meditation Center, Redwood City), in the last 20 years, has bought and extensively renovated a church as meditation center, and more recently bought a luxurious retreat center in a tony area of Scotts Valley (Santa Cruz mountains) among luxury multi-acre lots with vineyards, horses, etc., and bought a neighboring house for a tad under $1 million, to house staff. Granted, the stream of donations is so solid that the retreat center can afford to offer retreats at dana-only, and the operation is thriving; the average yogi appears to afford substantial dana (though the wait list is several months and decided by lottery).
In contrast, the Tathagata Meditation Center (Mahasi-Pandita monastery-retreat center in nearby âLittle Saigonâ area of San Jose), started up 25 or so years ago, with real estate investment of a couple $100-thousands. They recently acquired an adjoining large lot, in the post-2008 depressed real estate market, for, if I recall, $700-800-thousand. Near the main office is a spread-sheet showing the capital improvement projects over the last 20 years or so: amounts on the order of $20k finish main hall, $10k more dorms, $5k this or that etc., totaling within $100k. So the whole shebang probably within $2 million (in a large surrounding area where now common 3-bedroom/2-bath homes go for $1-2 million, average). Weekend retreats (and Pali classes) are no-fee; 30 day retreats (or one can go the first week or more partial) at $25/day (+ dana) â half as much for a month as one week at SRMC! And books â English and Vietnamese translations of works of Mahasi, Silananda Sayadaws, etc. â are free (but they charge for the new upscale âManual of Insightâ translation from Wisdom Pubs).
I donât have a lot of data on financial support, donors in, say, Thailand or Burma, except for the list-out of donors supporting the publication of books by the Pa Auk Sayadaw (found at the back of his books): for the two main books (5000 copies of The Workings of Kamma, 3000 copies of Knowing and Seeing), some 211 donors listed:
#1 Kuching Bhagavan Buddhist Society, $7000;
#2-30, individuals and families in amounts from $700 down to $150;
#31- 69, simile at $100;
#70-84, simile $84 down to $52;
#85-150 at $50 down to $25;
#151-211 from $20 down to $5.
Chinese, Burmese, Vietnamese, Korean names (not to overlook a donation from âIrene & Henryâ). 180 of the 211 donors giving $100 or less. Total ca. $20k with about $14k from the small donors ($100 or less).
I get a sense more of broad grass-roots support rather than that many really wealthy people.
So? Same here (e.g. Than-Geoff books, always available at IMC); and I suspect, like here, one can request books be sent â free but maybe for shipping (& dana).
Do we know the circumstances? If I give away my hardcopy of the MN or AN (each paid for ca. $60) would that break copyright law?
Clearly youâre attempting to defend a position that is arguable, has merit
on some level, but this statement has major problems.
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Dear Bhante, I still am unsure how some mindful variances with Vinaya, on a given occasion to raise funds for BGR, leads to monks waking up âas a priest with a woman next to him.â Again, this seems to be a slippery slope argument taken much too far.
But I do respect your point of view that the Vinaya needs to be followed and respected carefully. One of the aspects of monastics that go forth in the Theravada tradition that I value is the maintenance of Vinaya. I donât want to see an erosion in the keeping of Vinaya, and support further education and reinforcement of Vinaya.
Still, I have just never gone so far as to perceive Vinaya as a statutory scheme with monks set up as judges, juries and jailers. In 2017, there might be some consideration for some transgressions of the ancient Vinaya in order to serve some skillful means. I know of some Sri Lankan monks in the US that drive cars, as they are unable to teach or do other services without a car that they drive to these events. There are just no reliable lay people in their community that can drive them. Without the car, they are housebound and unable to go forth and teach. In Thailand, it woudl be a shock to see a bhikkhu driving a car, but here in the US, no one pays attention to this.
I know of other monastics in the west, including an abbot, that do some work, such as digging and cutting plants, as the work needed to be done, and no one was around to do it. That same abbot, one of the most honorable monks I have ever met, drives a golf cart to get around the wat. Do any of these activities interfere with his Vinaya, or his practice, or the absolute high regard in which he is held by his junior monks, anagarikas, and lay community? Not at all. Heâs a strict Vinaya monk that employs some occasional skillful means.
Same as for Bhikkhu Bodhi, it seems. Is he anything other than a paragon of good monastic life? Examining his life, his work, and his overall demeanor, is he anything other than an exemplary monk?
I suppose what I am saying is that it is proper to view monasticism in the west through a lens of reason, and wisdom. Rather than recoiling at minor variances in perhaps lesser Vinaya rules, some perspective should be employed. Buddhism, to me, involves some wise and reasoned nuance, a measure of joy and balance, and should not be observed and practiced as akin to a hammer looking for raised nails to pound down.
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Yes we do. The circumstance is that with the existing copyright status of Bodhiâs Connected, Middle Length, and Numerical Discourses, for every poor new Buddhist who doesnât have 3 x 60 = 180$ but wants to get those copies, itâd require another person like you who already purchased those books and is willing to give them away. This 1-1 numerical game is apparently not very favorable to the propagation of the Dhamma. If the Buddha and those noble ancient venerables who authored the Cmy. were businessmen, theyâd probably already sued all those modern teachers who use their original intellectual property to sell for a profit!
yes. not meaningless. very straightforward. studies not necessary for such a simple question.
i want lemonade -> i get it free from stand -> no longer want lemonade -> donât go to store to buy lemonade -> no revenue for store
i want lemonade -> no freebie stand -> still want lemonade -> go to store, buy lemonade -> revenue for store