Dhammacakkapavatana Pāli question (SN56.11)

Working on Dhammacakkapavatana in Pāli class, and looking for some clarification that’s probably more Dhamma than grammar, and hence, outside the scope of our class discussion.

From the section where the Buddha details the three parivaṭṭā for each Noble truth:

  • 'Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ pariññeyyan’ti
  • ‘Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhasamudayaṁ ariyasaccaṁ pahātabban’ti
  • ‘Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhanirodhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ sacchikātabban’ti
  • ‘Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā ariyasaccaṁ bhāvetabban’ti

Translations from Bhante Sujato, Bhante Bodhi, and Ajahn Thanissaro are all in agreement that the potential participle (aka future passive participle) modifies the ariyasacca, and not the respective apposite phrase of that ariyasacca. That is to say - for these three translators, it does not modify dukkha, dukkhasamudaya, dukkhanirodha, or the paṭipadā (of dukkhanirodhagāmi).

So, the English translation (here fr Bhante Bodhi) would be:

  • 'This noble truth of suffering is to be fully understood’
  • This noble truth of the origin of suffering is to be abandoned’
  • ‘This noble truth of the cessation of suffering is to be realized’
  • ‘This noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering is to be developed’

My confusion is that this does not make sense for ariyasacca #2, because it sounds like the the noble truth is to be abandoned, not the origin of suffering.

If applied to school rules on uniforms - it sounds like the school rule should be abandoned - not the t-shirts.

  • School rule about neckties should be understood
  • School rule about t-shirts should be abandoned
  • School rule about button-ups should be experienced
  • School rule about slacks should developed.

Whereas if the future passive participle applies to the apposite phrase of each ariyasacca, the English would read:

  • 'This is the noble truth of: that suffering should be understood’
  • 'This is noble truth of: that origin of suffering should be abandoned’
  • ‘This noble truth of: that cessation of suffering is to be realized’
  • ‘This noble truth of: that way leading to the cessation of suffering is to be developed’

Can anyone help me understand why that future passive participle applies to the whole ariyasacca and not its apposite?

A secondary reason I’m intuiting a structural separation between the ariyasacca and its apposite is that each sections opens with idaṃ, to establish the ariysacca, and then follows with taṃ - seemingly to create a separate clause for the apposite ( dukkha ariyasacca here)

Idaṁ dukkhaṁ ariyasaccan’ti me, bhikkhave…

'Taṁ kho panidaṁ dukkhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ pariññeyyan’ti me, bhikkhave…


If I have correctly understood it, then idaṃ = this ariyasacca, and taṃ = a demonstrative pronoun pointing to whatever is pariññeyyaṃ. Which seems like it would necessarily refer to a subject distinct from the ariyasacca, no?

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Perhaps have a look at these, for starters:

(It really is very confusing !)

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Thanks, Stephen! those are great, and I didn’t realize it was such a point of discussion. yes, I see Bhante Sujato has rendered it here in the way that I thought.

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Yes, I believe Bh. Sujato followed Norman’s suggestion:

" When the word ariya-saccaṃ is included in the statement, we should translate: “The NT (that) “This is pain”, etc.”

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Hello Karuna_Hong,
It is very difficult to know the exact meaning of Pali word. The translation words are not perfect. It is also depending on the various authors. Some are theory scholars and some are also with the experience of practice. Theory and practice should be go together for better understanding.
May I reply in plain language in layman’s term what I understand and learned from my meditation teacher. As I am not the Pali scholar please excuse my Pali spelling. I am trying to simplify from the different versions of English translations from various authors.
There are three components for each One of Noble Truths which make total 12 components for Four Noble Truths. They are as follow:
I. dukkha sacca - The Noble Truth of Suffering

  1. ariya sacca : that, this is the Noble Truth of Suffering.
  2. parinneyya: that, this the Noble Truth of Suffering must be completely known / explored , the entire field of dukkha has to be explored (must be completely known)
  3. parinnata: that, which is the Noble Truth of Suffering has been completely known / it is totally completely explored.

II. dukkha samudaya ariya sacca: The Noble Truth of Cause / Uprising of Suffering

  1. ariya sacca : that, this is the Noble Truth of the Arising or the Cause of Suffering.
  2. pahatabbana* : that, which is Noble Truth of the Cause of Suffering must be given up / craving should be totally eradicated
  3. pahinam: that, which is the Noble Truth of the Cause of Suffering has been given up / it is totally eradicated

III. dukkha nirodho ariya sacca: Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering

  1. ariya sacca: that, this is the Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering
  2. sacchikatabbam : that, which is the Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering must be realised / it is to be witnessed
  3. sacchikatam : that, which is the Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering has been realised / witnessed.

IV. dukkha nirodha gamini patipada ariya sacca. The Noble Truth of the Path Leading to the Cessation of Suffering.

  1. aria sacca : that, this is the Noble Truth of the Course Leading to the Cessation of Suffering, The Noble Truth of the Path Leading to the Cessation
  2. bhavetabbam : that, which is the Noble Truth of the Course Leading to the Cessation of Suffering must be developed / it has to be practiced repeatedly
  3. bhavitam : that, which is the Noble Truth of the Course Leading to the Cessation of Suffering has been developed / it is fully completed.

May you be liberated.

The following is a comparison of the Sacca Samyutta of SN and SA versions on the four noble truths by Choong Mun-keat. The comparative study may be useful on the topic (particularly the table in p. 237):

Pages 235-240 from The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat 2000.pdf (338.1 KB)