Why five ascetics are called bhikkhu in dhammacakkappavattana sutta? I am curious to this answer as I forgot it. and some of Buddhist people asked me about it.
1 Like
AFAIK there are even Jain mendicants. Bhikkhu just means beggar in Pāli. So, it’s probably because they were of a similar cloth / mendicant tradition.
2 Likes
Do we have examples where non-Buddhist mendicants are referred to as “bhikkhu”?
I have always understood that since the sutta is being recounted, they are referred to that way because in the “present” of the sutta being told they are now bhikkhus. Ven. @Dhammanando, do you know why?
2 Likes
From my index, I find only samana or paribbājaka or titthiya used for other ascetics. This sutta seems to be an exception - probably because of the reason highlighted. For the oral memorisation, I guess it would be weird to have Buddha telling a discourse addressing samanas.
1 Like
I wrote a post five years ago summarising the different senses of “bhikkhu”. In it I distinguish between the vinayaically relevant and vinayaically irrelevant senses of the word. Since at the start of the Dhammacakkappavattanasutta the five ascetics hadn’t yet gone forth in the Buddha’s dispensation they weren’t yet bhikkhus in the former sense, but they would have been in several of the latter senses.
7 Likes
I knew you were the one to call on. Thank you!
3 Likes
Thankyou Ven Bhante. Dhammanando. Dear Bhante, what this means is that there were some who followed other beliefs, they were also bhikkhu, and the sons of Lord Buddha are called bhikkhu, so what should be interpreted is that even before Buddha’s reign there were bhikkhu but in a different sense.
1 Like
There were Bhikṣus (Pali: Bhikkhus) being ordained outside of Buddhism (and prior to the Buddha’s time) as well.
Bhikṣu is a person who lives on bhikṣā (alms) as a lifestyle choice, one who chooses to beg, as opposed to begging occasionally due to lack of enough food.
Shortly before the Buddha’s time there was a famous Brahmin teacher called Pārāśarya who created a text like the Buddhist vinaya ethical-moral lifestyle guide for how Bhikṣus should live their life.
The Buddha claims in MN152 to Pārāśarya’s disciple Uttara that his teachings for Bhikṣus is better than the teachings of Pārāśarya.
Pāṇini, in his rule P.4.3.110 (pārāśarya-śilālibhyāṃ bhikṣu-naṭasūtrayoḥ) refers to the fact that bhikṣus who are followers of Pārāśarya’s Bhikṣu-sūtras are called by the epithet Pārāśarin.
(The name Pārāśarya is misspelled in 4 different ways in the Pāli Canon, and I have shown elsewhere how this could be a result of these Pāli lexical variants being inherited from a tripiṭaka that was originally written in Kharoṣṭhī script, where they all look very similar)
1 Like
A bhikṣu/bhikkhu (almsman, medicant) belongs to the Śramaṇas (Samaṇas) who are recluses, homeless wanderers, living on alms, and dedicated to contemplation, debate and investigation for personal salvation. A Śramaṇa is also called parivrājaka (wanderer), saṁnyāsin (renounced person), or muni (sage).