Did the Five Aggregates predate the Buddha? I would think that the words for each aggregate had to predate the Buddha or he could not have used them since they would not be meaningful. Does anyone know if Brahmins or Jains made use of the FIve Aggregates as person prior to the Buddha?
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That’s a very interesting question. I’ve always thought that it was the Buddha’s original insight to describe what is taken for a ‘self’ in terms of the five khandhas, a mode of thinking about and observing what we call ‘I’ or ‘me’.
The vocabulary the Buddha used to label the khandhas was around (and the Sanskrit word skandha is used in the Vedas), but he certainly could have redefined the meaning of the words. The Buddha is often seen redefining words to express his new, unique insights.
But I could be wrong and also look forward to other’s replies.
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The short answer is that the khandhas don’t appear in pre-Buddhist Vedic literature, nor in the oldest Jain literature.
The individual words (rupa, vedana, etc.) of course appear in the Brahmin texts, but not together, and in very different contexts.
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I just came to ask the same question based on the Buddha’s mention of them in the dhammacakkappavattana sutta without explaining what they are, so it seems like it would have been something the 5 bhikkus would have known about? Or was it more of a “sneak peek” of something he intended to teach them later on?
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Yeh, it seems to be his own thing, but this is from the … Taitiriya … Samhita …I think. Sorry. I am in the middle of things. If, so this is a blend of mantra and commentary.
Thus, with a view to point out the means of realizing the unity of Brahman and Self, the śruti has taught - in the words “hid in the cave, in the highest heaven" - that Brahman who is beyond all causes and effects, who lies in the avyākṛta — the Brahman abiding in the buddhi as the cause lies in the effect.
The cave is the five kośas in their aggregate. So we have elsewhere said:
“Behind the physical body there is breath (prāṇa); behind breath (prāṇa), there is mind (manas), behind that again is the agent (kartṛ); behind this again is the enjoyer (bhōktā). This series is the cave.”
The avyākṛta, the cause of these five kośas, is here spoken of as the ‘highest heaven.’ The nature of the avyākṛta has been described by those who are acquainted with the tradition as follows:
“The nescience of Ātman with a semblance of consciousness in it, is the highest heaven (avyākṛta), the cause of the gross (sthūla) and subtle (sūkṣma) bodies (śarīras).
And the śruti also shows, “That, verily, the avyākṛta then this was," before evolution, this whole universe was the avyākṛta. To be the avyākṛta is to be in an unmanifest condition.
It seems the Buddha did not really have his own terminology for his teachings. He used the language at that time the person could understand and respond to him. E.g. the teachings present in the major collection of SN/SA suttas about his conversation and instruction on knowing (jānāti) and seeing (passati) the four noble truths, the notion of anicca, dukkha, suñña, anatta, and the middle way.
Have you been able to find mention of the 5 aggregates prior to the Buddha’s teaching?
The major collection of SN/SA suttas themselves shows the terms are prior to the Buddha’s teaching.
You are saying the Samyutta Nikaya predates the Buddha’s own teaching?
Do you consider it a Vedic text?
What is “the Buddha’s own teaching”?
I would say it’s something the Buddha taught.
Does this seem like a strange idea?
(You may find a compilation by Ven. Bodhi)
The closest thing identified so far is the five kosas in the TU, Book II, the Ānandavallī (Brahmavallī)
The rupakandha can be mapped to annarasamayaḥ
The saṅkhārakhanda can be mapped to ātmaprāṇamayaḥ
The saññākandha can be mapped to ātmamanomayaḥ
The viññāṇakandha can be taken as categorically as ātmavijñānamayaḥ
The vedanākandha can be mappeed to ātmaānandamayaḥ
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Thank you for this.
I wonder if there has been much scholarly work on comparing the Taittiriya Upanishad and the Pali suttas. An interesting subject.
Wynne, right. He has a light hand. Advantages and disadvantages.
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Most likely is that the Buddha did explain in detail what he meant by 5 khandhas, but the compilers of the sutta just put in “5 khandhas” to make it short and easier to remember . IMHO.
The suttas were transmitted orally and thus had to use lots of shortcuts for ease of memorization. Similar is with many stock phrases. I don’t think that the Buddha would always say exact same paragraph, word-by-word, when talking to different people on different occasions when answering the same topic.
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I believe that focusing on the 5 aggregates is important to lead you to insight and knowledge.
Once progressing in knowledge, they are transcended (while still being entirely valid).
The Buddha’s path is in itself original and unique, and I think it makes no difference whether this particular building block predated him.