Discussion for Bilara users

Thank you for the detailed reply, Bhante.

I like this process, and I am thinking of doing it similarly. I have already translated much of the DN, and what is now lacking is most of the Silakkhandhavagga. So you’ve finished your notes on this one, and I’ll see how far you get by the time I finish it. I am then thinking of revising my existing DN translations together with doing the notes.

I like the corrections that you are making. Some don’t have an impact on my own translation, but many do; and some I have even been thinking about (or along similar lines) myself.

Yes, I think this will play out over time. I have started with DN 1 now, and when looking at your notes I am sometimes wondering whether this is the right thing to say in this place. For now I am just translating them and trying to get a feeling for them myself too.

Okay, let’s see how far you get with that one by the time I want to publish my first notes.


Added:
Bhante @sujato, I have still a question: I guess the abbreviated links in the comments, like [dn27:17.5](), are pointing to /en/sujato. Or how is this for other languages?

I see there are also references to Jatakas, and perhaps other non-segmented texts. They should of course preferably point to a translation in the respective language.

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Great, that sounds perfect. We should really have a feedback mechanism on Bilara where suggestions for notes and translations can be made!

That’s right, so far links have two forms.

  • Convenience form: for EBT suttas, we can simply list the Sutta or segment UID, and it will transform to the full URL at en/sujato.
  • Standard form: any normal markdown link just as you’d add here.

The standard form lets the user control exactly what the URL is and what will be shown. But the convenience form works in the bulk of cases.

We will of course develop a method of displaying links for different languages. In fact, maybe it does this already, I can’t quite recall. But the obvious use it to make it refer to the same language/author as the translator. We’ll have to publish something and test it. Anyway, if it doesn’t do this it will.

That won’t completely solve it, as sometimes there might be different translators and commentators for the same text. So there will also have to be some kind of config file that lets a commentator define the relevant edition if it is not standard.


FYI I want this year to be the year of a great leap forward for Bilara. I’m waiting for Hongda to finish the search first, then we’ll turn to that.

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If ever you need someone to test whatever thing I’m happy to be the guinea pig. :smile:

Great leap forward for Bilara will be a wonderful thing!!! :woman_cartwheeling: :woman_cartwheeling: :woman_cartwheeling:

For what little it’s worth, at this point :slight_smile: , it seems to go to the same author already. Yay! There’s a comment at pli-tv-bu-vb-pc21:2.26 which used to contain [an8.52:0.3]() (it has been changed in unpublished) and the link generated is https://suttacentral.net/an8.52/en/brahmali#0.3, which obviously doesn’t exist. Suttacentral nicely redirects it to .../en/sujato, however it strips off the #0.3 bit in doing so.

May Bilara channel its feline pouncing tendencies =P

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@Sujato, I have just pressed the update button for most of the Vinaya Piṭaka. Is it the case that I should not make any further changes to those files until they are updated on SuttaCentral?

Dear Venerable @Brahmali

I fixed a few apostrophes in kd18 - can you please publish pli-tv-kd again from Bilara?

There is a workflow run failure occurring for pli-tv-bu-vb which I’ve flagged with Bhante and Blake.

We’ll let you know when it’s resolved.

:pray:

Adding: You can make further updates to files before they’re updated on SC, but please hold off on updates to pli-tv-bu-vb for the moment.

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Thanks so much, @Carmi! I’ve just republish pli-tv-kd from Bilara.

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Thank you Venerable, for some reason only kd18 came through this time even though I closed the previous pull request.

Can you please try a hard refresh of the browser and publishing the folder pli-tv-kd again?

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Done! :slightly_smiling_face: (arrrgh … I need twenty characters, done!)

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Excellent thanks! All the updated kd files have come through now :slight_smile:

No, when it appears on SC is unrelated, that just depends on when Hongda updates the site (usually once a week). That’s not an automated process, though perhaps it should be.

Normally when you hit publish it should just go through okay. It takes a few minutes for the publishing run to complete, during which time it is prudent to avoid making changes, just in case something goes wrong. You can check the success on Github via the link provided on Bilara when you publish.

In this case there were some bugs in the update. I’m not sure about the Kd problems that Carmi resolved with you, but the Bu Vb problems relate to a weird bug in ss7 where one segment got a mangled number. No idea how that happened, but our system is supposed to check those errors and not let them through, and that’s exactly what it did. So yay us! I’m currently re-running that PR.

And you can see here that it has been updated in sc-data.

I notice from there that the Parivara has not been recently updated, is that correct?

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I created a web app that allows you to share your unpublished translations with people outside of the Bilara app. Please visit this thread to learn more and to offer feedback. I’m happy to add features as I made it in part to keep my coding skills (meager as they are) fresh.

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@Sujato, bilara is stuck! Any remedy?

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Blake has been notified, hold tight, and thanks.

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Bhante @Sujato, the end of the Parivāra, in the SuttaCentral version, has series of verses not found in CST. My understanding is that the Mahāsaṅgīti version is based on CST (and in my experience it follows it very closely, even making many of the same mistakes). The question then is, where do these additional verses come from? I notice they are found in the SiamRath Tipitaka. Still, if they have been added in Thailand, it is not clear on what basis. There seems to be no source for these verses in the entire CST corpus, which contains pretty much all significant Pali texts.

I suppose I should still translate them - which, in fact, I have - but it would be nice to have a note on the oddness of these verses and a reference to their provenance. Any suggestions?

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You mean the lines starting with Bubbācariyamaggañca? (Which BTW, seriously? Bubba???)

The same verses are in both the PTS and the BJT editions (which also sanely have Pubba). BJT notes variants in Thai editions. PTS notes variants in AC and B editions, not sure what these are. Anyway it’s obviously well attested. Maybe, I dunno, the CTS has dropped the last bit by mistake?


BTW I just noticed a small detail, in the Jain Sutrakritanga:

As a Mleccha[10] repeats what an Ārya has said, but does not understand the meaning, merely repeating his words, so the ignorant, though pretending to possess knowledge, do not know the truth, just as an uninstructed Mleccha. (15, 16)

This confirms that the Jains, like the Vinaya, saw mleccha as non-Indo-Aryan speakers. Also for the Brahmanical reference, the oldest occurrence is here:

Such was the unintelligible speech which they then uttered,–and he (who speaks thus) is a Mleccha (barbarian). Hence let no Brahman speak barbarous language, since such is the speech of the Asuras. Thus alone he deprives his spiteful enemies of speech; and whosoever knows this, his enemies, being deprived of speech, are undone.

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Thanks! I did notice afterwards the reading of the PTS edition, via Horner. So it seems it is the CST version that is an aberration. I guess it just go to show, once again, that the Burmese have not always been shy about making changes to the Tipitaka, innocuous as they may seem.

Do you have electronic versions of these two Pali editions? My version of BJT is corrupt, and I am not able to find any downloadable version online. (It was distributed by the Journal of Buddhist Ethics, but the links no longer work.)

Good!

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They’re both on Gretil. They’re not well proofed, especially BJT, but sometimes come in useful…

https://gretil.sub.uni-goettingen.de/gretil.html

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Thank you! One last thing, do you use MS as a standard abbreviation for the Pali version on SuttaCentral? Or is it MST or something else?

I’ve started feeling my way around the translation interface insofar as the French blurbs are concerned but there must be something I’m not understanding as editing the translations ends up either bringing text from the blurbs into the sutta titles or the reverse. (I was trying to work on AN 3 if that helps so that people can see what I’m talking about.)

Best,

Julien

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