The Buddha threw many rule-books to the wind when he wandered as an ascetic, searching for complete liberation. The adherents of the schools which he joined in his early days would have probably considered him as a failure when he left them, dissatisfied with their theories of nothingness and other ideas. His fellow ascetics who were with him when he indulged in self-mortification practices saw him as a fallen man when he ate some solid food. But he went on with his search…
I don’t think it is easy to be a conscientious monk in this age. The fundamental tenets of the Buddha’s teaching are still here with us, but the practice has become a vast network of institutionalized, faux-holiness. And I believe this is what the dhutanga monks tried to escape from, when they went back to the forests and sought to find the roots of true asceticism. More often than not, the practice is seen as a way to be a torch-bearer for the Dhamma and polish an external picture of serenity and righteousness that is not based on true, experiential wisdom and internal contentment. For people with a conscience, this becomes a real problem because the burden of sustaining and maintaining a made-up visage becomes nauseating as time passes - monkhood becomes just another manufactured personality.
These days I mostly think about how everything in my life is hanging by a thread that could snap anytime. The bits of money I have that allow me to buy a few essentials could vanish in an instant, leaving me destitute. Health, which is already a hell-hole of pain and mayhem, could deteriorate further and I could lose a few limbs today or tomorrow. When thinking about the utterly flimsy nature of the props in one’s life that give rise to a feeling of fake peace, one understands that frugality is not really true renunciation. It is during such times that the mind is drawn powerfully towards the complete extinguishing of desire, identity, possessions, associations, contact etc.
Thank you for that. It is beautiful and sobering sutta:)
It implies more to me how important is to find the right teacher (right monastery to ordain). Not to believe fancy words but to check their ethical conduct and lifestyle. Unfortunately (for me) this demands living with them for longer time. I remember the story when Ajahn Chah was looking for the enlighten teacher but leaving him when saw him kicking a dog…
The good thing is that from one pure gem can stems the whole line of good monks which I believe took place with Ajahn Mun, Ajahn Chah and others.
I found this video this morning. It’s just one example of what might be possible for someone wishing to explore ordination as a samanera.
My own sense is that most of the abbots in Thailand wouldn’t allow this single day ordination, but I support the idea, in that on the whole, this allows for westerners to experience Buddhism and to do it in a positive and supportive way. My own feeling is that so long as the approach is serious and respectful, the abbot of Redirecting... might have a good idea going.
Greetings to all and a wish for a more peaceful new year for all of us. And thank you for this passage which coincides with my thinking about the fragility of everything. The knowledge that over time everything falls apart is both disturbing and reassuring. As my heath fails in minute increments I am reminded of the Buddha’s description of the body, although typing this phrase “dissolution of the body” into the search bar yielded no results. And being less familiar with the suttas than many of you I would not mind a reminder of that description.
Yet I am grounded by the knowledge that all form is dissolute in nature , and that impermanence is the ultimate reality.
I wonder occasionally which might be the more difficult path for a Buddhist: to live within the protected yet political confines of a monastery…protected as it is from the mundane suffering of the everyday world, or to study and live Buddhism in the midst of the ongoing confusion and chaos of the life ordinary?
Wishing you all peace, and the cessation of suffering.
This is a really great question, @Rosie. There’s likely different types of dissatisfaction with either option; as Ajahn Brahm has taught in the example of being single or being married, and both sisters, in his example, suffering. So with your question, iving in a wat has its challengesm and huge benefits. Living in lay society has some benfits, and many challenges, too. Much depends on the person, it seems to me, and the wat or the householder community they’re in.
I do think t hat if one is going to try to take their practice deeper, and have the solitude and support needed for deeper practice, finding a good monastery is important. It’s just such a great environment to be in, for study and practice, and for having the support of all of the people around you engaged in similar pursuits.
Having said that, I can say that I was in Madison, WIsconsin last night, and tried for the first time a float tank. My son gave me the floats as a gift, and what an experience! A great and deep meditation, with the mind cut off from sound and any feeling of the body. Only the sound of the breath, and so easy to connect with the breath this way. I never experienced this level of sensory detachment in Thailand, what with painful knees/ankles after long sits, flea bitten temple dogs laying next to me in the meditation hall, mosquitoes, and in the morning, neighboring roosters crowing like crazy. So, being in the city brought great stillness and a nice meditation. Who knew?
Ahhh yes and thank you for that description triggered a memory of a similar experience, with the exact same experience of delight in experiencing my consciousness without the burden of gravity and bodily karma. Hey, if I could find a monastery with an isolation tank…and maybe a sunlamp, with a vibrating massage table…Imagine the waiting list to be ordained!
Peace:sweat_smile:
I just listened to an old talk by Ajahn Brahm, and he mentioned almost having a chance to try one out after local business offered to let him and Ajhan Jagaro test their newly installed toy. Ajahn Brahm wasn’t able to take his turn, but when he asked Ajhan Jagaro how it was, he said his breath was too loud! It turned out that the business just wanted to be able to say in advertisements that their tank was used by meditation masters!
@Timothy, yes, the sound of the breath is very pronounced, and really the only thing one can hear. You place wax sealers in your ears, as a barrier for salt water and sound, and so the breath is almost like on a microphone inside the head. Took a while to get used to it, but in the end, it was quite nice.
Interesting coincidence that the former Ajahn Jagaro (John Cianciosi) now lives only about 20 miles from me, and I had a chance to meet up with him when Ajahn Brahm last visited the Theosophical Society.
Wow! It’s a small world after all! I’m very interested to try myself, as well as am echo chamber. For me, the sounds of my own body are soothing, akin to time in the womb, I suppose!
Edit: Apologies to all for being off topic! We now return to the regular scheduled programming.
Exactly the sensation I experienced. And perhaps there in lies the fundamental…elemental value of the experience. A return to the womb. What a concept!
Awesome, they will be calling me to consult on the setup et al. I’m packing now, could the concierge please call me asap?
Fascinating as I knew about the ‘old’ Theosophical Society" when it was involved with Krishnamurti. But I had no idea they were still a thing. More research needed. Thanks!
My time in a floating tank I thought wasn’t great because once you close your eyes its a bit like meditating without many disturbances. The only down side was salt water getting into your eyes and mouth!
Defilement does not lie in clothes and haircuts, and to pack up the defilement in one package and try to throw them away in one go is not the middle way. If one gets ordained to counter ‘layperson defilement’, then wants to disrobe to counter ‘monastic defilement’, where should one go? The middle way is to shift the focus from outside and look at what’s happening in the mind, and try to understand and deal with the problems with wisdom. The so-called sati-pañña. And being a monastic is one of the best ways to practice this.
If they get ordained for other purposes:
They just won’t disrobe if their desires can be fulfilled by staying in robes. Although sometimes I do hope some people can disrobe to reduce the damage they did/will do to themselves and others.
“Master Gotama, the brahmins say: ‘Laypeople succeed in the procedure of the skillful teaching, not renunciates.’ What do you say about this?”
“On this point, student, I speak after analyzing the question, without making generalizations. I don’t praise wrong practice for either laypeople or renunciates. Because of wrong practice, neither laypeople nor renunciates succeed in the procedure of the skillful teaching. I praise right practice for both laypeople and renunciates. Because of right practice, both laypeople and renunciates succeed in the procedure of the skillful teaching.”
