DN 33 'sacchikaraṇīyā' - how about 'see for oneself'?

We have this section:

Cattāro sacchikaraṇīyā dhammā—
Four things to be realized.

pubbenivāso satiyā sacchikaraṇīyo;
Past lives are to be realized through recollection.

sattānaṃ cutūpapāto cakkhunā sacchikaraṇīyo;
The passing away and rebirth of sentient beings is to be realized through vision.

I’m interested in this word sacchikaraṇīyā, and its etymological connection to akkhi, the eye.

Let me diverge for a moment - do you realise how difficult it is for me to write on this forum?

Now, some of you might be thinking about what difficulties I might have, right? Don’t worry, I’m fine actually. But I wanted to engage your speculative function in your attempts to realise my situation. So, we can realise things or come to realise them, by thinking about a topic. Realise it intellectually. Such is a part of the domain of the word ‘realise’. I could refer even to understanding teachings - ‘do you realise the what this teaching means?’ Here I feel that the meaning is more specifically excluding that aspect of ‘realise’, thus having a narrower definition that ‘realise’.

I wonder if the Buddha was pointing at something more explicitly direct, by using this term. Does anyone have detailed knowledge of this term and its usage?

I am wondering if the following might convey this directness less ambiguously, and also preserve the etymology:

Cattāro sacchikaraṇīyā dhammā—
Four things to be seen for oneself.

pubbenivāso satiyā sacchikaraṇīyo;
Past lives are to be seen for oneself through recollection.

sattānaṃ cutūpapāto cakkhunā sacchikaraṇīyo;
The passing away and rebirth of sentient beings is to be seen for oneself through vision. …

What do you think?

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‘Seen for oneself’ could be ‘I have now seen for myself that Kellogs have more sugar in their cereal than another brand’ etc ie it ‘dumbs down’ any spiritual connotation of what this insight means. It’s not to be had for ‘normal people’, and is something special in its quality, which needs to be captured adequately in the terminology - hey this dude is enlightened! Hope this makes sense!

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Compare:

  • ‘I have now realised that Kellogs have more sugar in their cereal than another brand’
  • ‘I have now seen for myself that Kellogs have more sugar in their cereal than another brand’

Which do you find deeper? I would certainly say the second, which makes the knowing more definite. The first for example could be said after being told by a friend that that is so. Whereas the second confirms that it is not second hand knowledge, but exclusively first hand.

I can’t see how you view the second as a ‘dumbed down’ version of the first! Or why you think “normal people” can do the second, but not the first!

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I have now seen for myself that stopping cravings stops suffering.

I now realise that stopping craving stops suffering.

I have had a realisation (enlightenment) and it’s the ending of suffering.

For description of Four Noble truths or Knowledge of past lives it’s useful to use ‘exalted’ language, as it’s not a routine understanding, if that makes any sense!

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Although I am quite happy with the sense of your “see for myself”, there is a higher sense of accountability with Bhante’s “realize”. That “real” means to me, “REAL-ly see for myself :checkered_flag: boil-me to death yes!”, not just a "yeah, uh-huh, I kinda get it, yeah I kinda see that, so ok, check :heavy_check_mark: "