DN31 - Personal wealth management portions

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I tried to find a previous discussion on this matter. How do you housholders implement this instruction in practice?

26.19

"One portion is to enjoy.Ekena bhoge bhuñjeyya,

Two parts invest in work.dvīhi kammaṁ payojaye;

And the fourth should be keptCatutthañca nidhāpeyya,

for times of trouble.”āpadāsu bhavissatī”ti."

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I think it depends on the realistic financial situation of a person in some countries, or wealth class.So one part cannot be 25% in current day and age for most people.

The first part which includes eating, housing, donations etc, I doubt most of the world can make it to 25% of their monthy income.

Invest in work means basically getting the tools for the business, a farmer can upgrade their cart if broken, etc. The basics of capitalism, investing the capital into the business. For service workers it can be investment in night class for skills upgrade, or AI credits to help make the work faster.

For actual stock market investments, I am not an expert, and it seems more like gambling if one aims to buy low, sell high, but seems safer if one just wants to aim for dividen payouts, but it requires substantial amount of investment for the dividen to be livable. Also, one should screen for companies that does right livelihood for this investment (that means no KFC or Mcdonalds), and if possible not to invest in fossil fuel companies, or whatever social justice thing you’re pursuing.

Kept for times of trouble can be like during unemployment period, global economic recession, pandemic lockdown, climate change induced disaster etc.

It would be a good wake up call for people in the world to realize that ancient Indians are not actually poor when they can afford to spend only 25% of their income on not just survival, but also enjoyment, and including donations.

Edit add on:

When I was recently graduated from University, I had about $50,000 Singapore dollar debt, and I use close to half of my salary to pay it off. Got rid of it within 4 years+. University loan can be considered as a form of work investment, just paid backwards. I did had to use more than 25% of my salary to cover the rent, food etc.

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Its the world’s first portfolio advice!
:smiley:

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Hi. This advice looks to be advice for the merchant classes Buddhism historically attracted and depended upon (rather than advice for the working classes). Its capitalism.

I gave a really fun talk on the Buddha’s financial advice for a Metta Centre event (it was recorded but it’s not online yet). I joked that it was the original Barefoot Buckets. :joy:

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Oh, there’s advice for the working classes too.. and it ain’t pretty! The Buddha describes the modern Working class trap of “Work hard - Earn Cash - Spend money on Stuff you don’t need - Trash that Stuff - Work Harder - Earn more Cash - Repeat” so perfectly, he could well have been describing the Heck family woes in the Netflix show ‘The Middle’.

MN 13
a gentleman earns a living by means such as arithmetic, accounting, calculating, farming, trade, raising cattle, archery, government service, or one of the professions. But they must face cold and heat, being hurt by the touch of flies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, and reptiles, and risking death from hunger and thirst. This is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in the present life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

That gentleman might try hard, strive, and make an effort, but fail to accrue riches. If this happens, they sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion, saying: ‘Oh, my hard work is wasted. My efforts are fruitless!’ This too is a drawback of sensual pleasures apparent in the present life, a mass of suffering caused by sensual pleasures.

That gentleman might try hard, strive, and make an effort, and succeed in accruing riches. But they experience pain and sadness when they try to protect it, thinking: ‘How can I prevent my wealth from being taken by rulers or bandits, consumed by fire, swept away by flood, or taken by unloved heirs?’ And even though they protect it and ward it, rulers or bandits take it, or fire consumes it, or flood sweeps it away, or unloved heirs take it. They sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion: ‘What once was mine is gone.’

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From Dhammafarer…

The Buddhist Financial Wealth Pie-Chart

Page 9 & 10

Pie Chart with a little more of a detailed breakdown attached.

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Thanks for the quote from MN13. I didn’t have it in mind when posting. Good time to re-read. Though I had in mind, the current economic conditions that the personal income tax has gone up to 36% for some. Even the Buddha’s 25% safety allocation cannot satisfy the ‘rulers’ who come after you.

We can assume the instruction is for merchants only. Even so it seems unrealistic in the present circumstances to achieve unless you are in the top layer of the pyramid.

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I really don’t know if this is literally 25% each way. I think that it’s more that we should allocate a portion for our enjoyment and a portion for putting out fires/times of trouble. This is why I thought of the Barefoot system when reading this sutta. I’m not 100% sure of what his percentages were, but it was something like 10% for enjoyment, 20% for a savings goal, 20% into a firefighting fund and the rest to cover bills.

I would assume that this would be from our take home pay, not our pre-tax income.

What we can know for sure is that while we have financial debts, such as a big mortgage or a fancy car loan then we are going to have more financial suffering. We can make financial decisions based on our desire to practice, rather than keeping up with the Jones or Jayasekaras!

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Yes. Meditation and the eight precepts save a lot of money! :face_with_hand_over_mouth: Once I learned that you can get happiness for free from faith, ethics, mindfulness, etc, it was pretty easy to slowly dial down the speed on that old hedonic treadmill.

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‘Barefoot Buckets’ as the blog post shows, is same scheme in the Singalaka sutta. However it does not match with the proportions specifically given in the sutta. And it seems to me the current social and economic perspective is very different from the time of the Buddha. It is significant he advised to allocate the largest portion for investment while now most people -low-middle income- are not in a position to do it.

I think you’re missing the point here. There are things that you read in the suttas, which you definitely should take literally, and there are things that are somewhat of an estimate. This is one example of that, where you can take the figure as an estimate.

As Ven. Pasanna mentioned already:

In addition to the above, I think the Buddha mentions allocation of funds because maybe people (drawing on from the current age) tend to spend money on sensual things that offer very little enjoyment and not much security. I think putting away money for a rainy day is something that isn’t taught very much these days.

Also, I think people miss the point of giving to charities and other worthy causes. Because when you give, you feel good about yourself, and you feel happy, which is why people spend money on sensual things anyway.

The Buddha definitely encouraged generosity towards others, he said that it provides great fruit and benefit, and is the basis of what determines your circumstances in the next iteration of yourself.

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I’m afraid you are ignoring the point I’m trying to highlight here. The Buddha did not merely propose that one must divide the income to 3 parts (barefoot scheme). His advice is, at least, spend the larger part on investment and from the remaining expenses and safe keeping has to be equal or balanced. That is what we have to accept as the summary of the sutta quote without assigning numbers. My argument is it is quite impossible for majority of the present society to do this even from a rough estimate. I mean we can assume luxury items, housing and vehicle loans are problems. There may be people who are in those categories. But I’m not convinced that the people who live a moderate life in lower layers are capable of filling the 3 buckets roughly equally under the current circumstances. Therefore I’m open to interpretations of the sutta.

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