Do Buddhists Believe in God?

The Watercooler
42

It shouldn’t be surprising if there are similarities between Taoism and Mahayana Buddhism.

These similarities helped to facilitate the acceptance of Buddhism in China. Also, Cha’an (Zen) specifically has often been described as an amalgam of Buddhist and Taoism influences.

The concept of the Dharmakaya, however, isn’t original to Chinese Buddhism. The Eternal Buddha of the Lotus Sutra is an example of the Dharmakaya. According to the Lotus Sutra, all buddhas are embodiments of the Eternal Buddha.

Several different sects and schools of Mahayana Buddhism explicitly teach that Dharmakaya is more or less synonymous with the Buddha-nature in all things and beings. I’ve never seen a Mahayana school or sect which rejected this teaching:

In his Notes on ‘Essentials of Faith Alone’, Shinran, in commenting on a hymn from Shan-tao, makes the following observations about Nirvana[20]:

“Nirvana has innumerable names. It is impossible to give them in detail; We will list only a few. Nirvana is called extinction of passions, the uncreated, peaceful happiness, eternal bliss, true reality, Dharmakaya, dharma-nature, suchness, oneness and Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is none other than Tathagata. This Tathagata pervades the countless worlds; it fills the hearts and minds of the ocean of all beings. Thus, plants, trees and land all attain Buddhahood. Since it is with these hearts and minds of all sentient beings that they entrust themselves to the Vow of the dharma-body as compassionate means, this shinjin is none other than Buddha-nature. This Buddha-nature is dharma-nature. Dharma-nature is the Dharmakaya.”
Muryoko: Journal of Shin Buddhism]Muryoko: Journal of Shin Buddhism

The Dharma body is the same as the intrinsic, pure Buddha nature that resides in all things everywhere. The deluded self can find peace when it understands that it inherently possesses Buddha nature, that this nature pervades all things. Our wish to find what is real and permanent can only be resolved by attaining the Dharma body.
Hsingyun.org]Hsingyun.org

Despite the names and forms given to the dharmakaya Buddha in Tibetan Buddhism, the dharmakaya is an abstract concept - it is the primordial truth that is beyond form, space and understanding, where all beings are united and phenomena unmanifested. It is the unchanging, eternal absolute, where everything is united in Buddha nature…

The dharmakaya is also identified with Buddha nature, where there is no distinction between the Buddhas and everyone else. Buddha nature is a Mahayana belief that everyone is already a Buddha, and that Buddhahood is not something to be achieved, but to be revealed or uncovered by clearing away our ignorance and confusion with the practice of wisdom and compassion as guided by the Dharma.
http://pemanorbuvihara.my/buddhism/buddha.html]http://pemanorbuvihara.my/buddhism/buddha.html

43

This is cross pollination not pure Buddhism.

44

It just to happens that, by coincidence, Mahayana Buddhism shared similarities with Taoism, similarities which ultimately helped the Chinese culture to accept Buddhism.

45

With the little knowledge I have, Taoism is very much like Hinduism too (but I like it better than Hinduism).
I think Mahayana is influenced by Hinduism.
By the way, I have no problem with Mahayana teaching except some matters not relevant to me at this stage.

46

Historically, Mahayana Buddhism may have had more influence on Hinduism than the other way around.

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47

From above link:
“We must emphasize again that generally throughout the Gupta Dynasty, and even more so after its decline, there developed such a high degree of syncretism and such toleration of all points of view that Mahayana Buddhism had been Hinduized almost as much as Hinduism had been Buddhaized.[477]”

48

Historically, we may never know exactly how much one influenced the other. It’s also important to remember that Theravada Buddhism borrowed or inherited concepts from Hinduism (or Brahmanism) as well.

49

The objective is to make a raft with what ever the twigs and leaves you have so you can cross the flood.
:grinning:
By the way I have seen the perfect mixture of Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism in Japan.

50

That’s interesting. I don’t know specifically how Japanese Buddhism might have been influenced by Hinduism, thought there are Japanese people who worship or pray to Hindu gods as Shinto Kami.

51

@kensho, I’m curious what your purpose is here on DD as this is a Theravada and mostly EBT discussion forum.

Have you been on Mahayana forums, where people who share your views would be around? I sometimes see people trying to make a ‘role’ for themselves trying to stand out, using some aspect of the dhamma, out of ego. Faith I suppose could easily supplement it.

With metta

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52

Thank you for your question.

The purpose of this thread is to clear up any possible misconceptions that were created by a misleading Pew Research study which claimed that a majority of American Buddhists believe in God.

It turns out that the actual survey question asked if you believe in God or a universal spirit, which are two different things. I’m sure there were Theravada Buddhists who participated in the survey, as well as Mahayana Buddhists.

53

Pure Land Buddhism is the largest school of Buddhism in East Asia, especially in China and Japan. While Zen is more popular in the West, the Jodo Shinshu sect of Pure Land Buddhism is the largest Buddhist tradition in Japan.

It might seem strange to Westerners that Amida Buddha, rather than the historical Shakyamuni Buddha, is the main object of devotion in Pure Land Buddhism, and statues of Amida Buddha are often mistaken for Shakyamuni.

It also might seem like Amida is a theistic god who answers petitionary prayer, but that’s if one focuses solely on the outward form of Pure Land Buddhism, without delving into the ultimate meaning of Pure Land doctrine and practice.

A central concept of Mahayana Buddhism is skillful means:

Expedient means (Skillful means, Skill-in-means, Upaya)
Refers to strategies, methods, devices, targeted to the capacities, circumstances, likes and dislikes of each sentient being, so as to rescue him and lead him to Enlightenment. “Thus, all particular formulations of the Teaching are just provisional expedients to communicate the Truth (Dharma) in specific contexts.” (J.C. Cleary.) “The Buddha’s words were medicines for a given sickness at a given time,” always infinitely adaptable to the conditions of the audience.
About Us | Young Men's Buddhist Association of America

Upaya or skillful means, however, is not a concept exclusive to Mahayana Buddhism:

Upāya: Skillful means
Bringing the truth to the level of the people for their benefit and liberation
A study by Piya Tan ©2009
http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/30.8-Upaya-Skillful-means.-piya.pdf

While it might seem, on a surface level, that Amida is a literal flesh and blood Buddha from a world galaxies away, eons before the Big Bang, who magically grants our wishes like a god, this isn’t the ultimate truth of Amida Buddha.

Amida is, in an ultimate sense, allegorical of Dharma-body itself, the ultimate truth beyond time and form:

Amida (Amitabha in the original Sanskrit) is the Buddha of Infinite Light and Eternal Life. He is a manifestation of the absolute and supreme reality which is known in Mahayana Buddhism as the Dharmakaya. The Dharmakaya completely transcends time and space but is also, at the same time, to be found in all things and within all sentient beings. It constitutes the fundamental essence of all existence and possesses, pre-eminently, the qualities of absolute wisdom, compassion and bliss…

Amida Buddha and the Dharmakaya are, in fact, identical, differing only in function. One could say that Amida Buddha is the ‘personal’ face of the formless Absolute and the only medium through which ordinary beings can ever get to know its treasures. In this sense, the revelation of Amida Buddha to the world can be seen as an act of compassion (upaya or skillful means) which serves to illuminate one’s path in this turbid world of birth-and-death (samsara)…
Muryoko: Journal of Shin Buddhism

Amida’s Pure Land is, in an ultimate sense, the realm of Nirvana itself, rather than a theistic heaven:

Although the descriptions of the Pure Land that we find in the sutras (eg. jewelled ponds, celestial music, exquisite flowers raining down from the sky etc.) appear too fantastic and incredible, they are none other than a means (upaya) of conveying the blissful and permanent nature of Nirvana - which is quite inconceivable to ordinary people - in terms and images taken from our every-day world that are more familiar to those who are not aware of any other reality…

When the tradition speaks of Amida, the Pure Land, suffering sentient beings etc., it should not be thought that it is speaking of fundamentally different things. The Buddha and his land of bliss are essentially one and the same reality, these terms merely designating different functions or aspects of the Dharmakaya.
Muryoko: Journal of Shin Buddhism

In reciting the name of Amida Buddha, Namu-Amida-Butsu, the inexplicable and otherwise inexpressible reality of Dharma-body is made accessible to unenlightened beings, as a form of upaya or skillful means, rather than petitionary prayer to a theistic god.

Please keep in mind that I am only sharing these things to clear up the misconception that Amida Buddha is a god, rather than trying to promote any sect or school of Buddhism.

Rather than the Dharmakaya being a substitute or a stand-in for belief in God, I actually think that the Dharmakaya is superior as a concept to that of a theistic god. Since the Dharmakaya is not a creator, Buddhists don’t have to attempt to answer the problem of evil:

54

After 10 years in the Tibetan Buddhism (Mahayana tradition) I abandoned it because I could not see how all these concepts could help us end Dukkha. The Buddha was only interested in Dukkha and the way to end it. After he passed away people have added so many concepts that in the case of the Mahayana traditions the original teachings became hidden (the original suttas are not presented to students). All these added concepts that we could argue about for ever, have created a situation where the dhamma has become a set of religions instead of what it was supposed to be: a practice to free ourselves from Dukkha.

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55

How is rescuing someone to Enlightenment stated in Mahayana? What are the recommended methods or techniques?

with metta

56

That’s a good question. There are various sects and schools of Mahayana Buddhism, with different teachings and practices on how to attain enlightenment.

Even in the Pali canon, the Buddha taught in different ways to different people in different circumstances who had different needs and temperaments:

Upāya: Skillful means
Bringing the truth to the level of the people for their benefit and liberation
http://dharmafarer.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/30.8-Upaya-Skillful-means.-piya.pdf

This is because there are 84,000 paths to enlightenment:

82,000 Teachings from the Buddha
I have received;
2,000 more from his disciples;
Now, 84,000 are familiar to me.
KD: Theragatha: Chapter XVII — The Thirties, #260

57

What you are saying seems very strange to me. Please let me explain.

First of all, while I am not a Tibetan Buddhist, I recognize that there have been many enlightened people throughout the history of Tibetan Buddhism.

Secondly, if you are claiming that Theravada Buddhism is free of metaphysical or philosophical concepts, you should probably know better. The Nikayas, the Abhidhamma, and the early Theravadin commentators have their own fair share of metaphysical or philosophical concepts.

What would be better, perhaps, is if you were honest that you are now Theravada Buddhist because that’s your own personal preference or what works best for you in your own practice, not because Mahayana Buddhism is devoid of enlightened people or too heavy on metaphysical concepts.

I mean no disrespect in pointing out these things. If there are 84,000 paths to enlightenment, yours will not be the same as mine, which is perfectly fine.

It seems kind of weird or strange to me that so many Theravada Buddhists pray to gods like Indra or Brahma for worldly favors, but I am not going to disparage Theravada Buddhism because of it. People express their Buddhist practice in various ways, with various levels of understanding. The Buddha takes us all as his disciples anyway.

58

Where did you get this silly idea?

59

I was just speaking of something that is popularly practiced in traditionally Theravadin countries, like Thailand:

I am not making a moral judgement against Theravada Buddhists who pray to Hindu gods or who wear magic amulets or who practice some sort of other superstition.

My only point was that pointing the finger at Mahayana Buddhism might not be a fair representation of reality. It would be preferrable, perhaps, to look at Theravada and Mahayana as equally legitimate expressions of Buddhism.

There are great Theravada teachers and scholars who regard Mahayana as a legitimate expression of Buddhism. I could name some of them, and I bet you can think of some too.

60

This is Tai Unno explaining the differences between Amida Buddha and a theistic god:

Amida Buddha differs radically from the traditional Judaeo-christian concept of God, because of the following characteristics:

  1. Amida Buddha is not a creator, but he is a saviour who performs his compassionate work without any condition whatsoever.
  2. Amida Buddha does not judge or punish man, for man is responsible for his own acts and invites the consequences, good or bad, of his acts.
  3. Amida Buddha does not perform miracles, but he manifests his saving compassion through the rhythem of natural laws.
  4. Amida Buddha is not transcendent, standing outside this world; but he is immanent, for his very being is rooted in the limitations of this world which will be transformed by the power of Amida’s love.
  5. Amdia Buddha is not a wrathful or jealous God; rather, the power of compassion fulfilled in his Original Vow completes tlhe promise that he will not rest until all beings attain the same enlightenment, Buddhahood, as himself.
  6. Amida Buddha does not discriminate in any form, whether of belief or creed, moral good or moral evil, human life or animal life, but he embraces all in Oneness with equal warmth.
  7. Amida Buddha does not show his love by the blood of crucifixion, sacrificing his own being, but by making his compassion accessible to mankind through the Nembutsu, his sacred name, which resounds throughout the universe.
    Wherever his sacred name, Namu Amida Butsu, is pronounced, there he is.

Amida Buddha is the timeless content of enlightenment (Dharma-body) realized by the historical Buddha, Shakyamuni. Amida means boundless compassion and immeasurable wisdom. Immeasurable wisdom sees into the fragility of human life, and boundless compassion is moved by this insight to actively embrace all
life into the timeless fulfillment of truth…

IS THERE A GOD? No, not a God of fear and mercy, who is creator and judge; but for me there is Amida Buddha. The fullness of compassion covers the horizon of my existential experience of reality, and my response is the reciting of the name in humbleness and gratitude, Namu Amida Butsu.
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys1/amida-go.htm

While it might seem like Mahayana Buddhism is centered on the worship of theistic gods, this is not exactly the case.

61

You have been assuming I’m following the Theravada tradition. I’m not. I’m on my own as the Buddha-to-be was. No need for teachers, no need for traditions that have made a religion out of a practice.
Meanwhile I express my gratitude and I acknowledge my debt to the Theravada tradition that has preserved the EBTs which is my main source of data for my development; the other being Dhamma friends.

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