When one has a spiritual problem, or a spiritual crisis, do you believe devas can help, when asked? Has that happened in the suttas? And what you think about this: In the Buddhas time it was normal that devas came to visit the buddha and nuns and monks. Do you think it still happens, or not? And why?
I think that they help in direct proportion to the extent to which one believes in them.
Maybe but it will surely be limited as devas are also made of nama and rupa.
To quote the Buddha’s words from Dammapada,
“Attā hi attanō nāthō - One is one’s own Refuge.”
IMO, why we rely on devas while we also have strong mental powers (cetasika) like sati, samadi, metta, karuna etc.
All those mental good qualities are embedded in our sankhara khanda as built-in seeds.
We just need to try and cultivate them to heal spiritual crisis.
Thanks and regards,
Multiplied by the extent to which they believe in you!
Interesting … Can you suggest a way of gauging this? … Or must I wait until my heart mind is much more purified than it is at present?
I don’t really know much from personal experience, but many monks insist that devas only support sincere and virtuous people.
You make a good point.
It must be interesting for those beings, which have lifespans that stretch across millennia to watch us come and go, rebirth after rebirth, stalling our efforts, wasting our opportunities and letting so many opportunities pass by…
But I would say that those beings probably have more important things to do or get distracted with… Just as we don’t have much of an attention span to follow the steps of ants and other crawling animals in our backyard, they probably don’t have much of a reason to watch us crawling through samsara…
Indeed. I’ve heard it’s a relatively small number of the devas that pay any attention to us… and a good portion of those are in Mara’s hoard! “delighting in controlling others” But still: I have faith that there are some “Dharma protectors” out there
Devas aren’t big on doing favors and they aren’t one’s servants.
Yakkhas are mixed as to their intententions, might try to take possession, maybe become seen & heard if they want something or attack if one interferes with their bussiness and whatnot.
Maras are more cunning in working against attainments, will mostly mind control in ways one probably won’t even notice but can also be more direct in becoming seen or heard.
These non-humans are rarely interested in people and much less so in people who aren’t advanced meditators.
I believe one is most likely to encounter non-humans in and around monasteries with strong meditators where they will haunt people or places but also in the forests.
Id say be happy to be left alone.
For worldly problem, deva can help in limited way.
The analogy is like someone who is powerful, hard to meet, enjoying themselves in pleasure and leisure, and then you want them to help you about something.
Of course they need some reason to help you. You need to be able to communicate your matter, you need to have good reputation, etc. Otherwise those celebs and important people wont pay attention.
For spiritual matters, I think we should rely on ourselves. We already have the Dharma as guidance.
If you have questions, the monastics or buddhist community is more accessible than the devas
Chances are as slim as we would help an orphaned doe deep in the wood we never come across.
But i do think there is certain ‘synchronicity’ in a way unable to explained away by coincident.
I think that Devas help and that this is also related to our actions (do we always remember to invite them?) and Khamma. If the Khamma doesn’t allow it then I guess they can’t really help.
I just went through a very difficult time and I had no other chance than to develop through it…and suddenly there was light at the end of the tunnel. My greatest wish, before impossible due circumstances, suddenly became possible!
I just simply know that devas and my guardian spirits helped me with that. They were the only ones knowing about my wish and my suffering.
They way everything happened and things fell into place was “guided from above”.
I don’t think that devas sitting there, watching us and have nothing else to do than helping us but I feel that they can do gentle guidance. I just think that there are “different departments” in those realms.
I am not sure but I think it’s in Ajahn Mun’s Biography that he says Devas can’t stand the smell of ordinary human beings. Greed, hatred and all those defilements have a smell which “hurts” their noses.
I find it great that they are still there for us. It’s like for us going and playing with the pigs or rubbing with cows and getting full of their slob when they lick us
So “Thank you Devas”
Bhavatu sabbamangalam rakkhantu sabbadevata
May there be all blessings, may all the devas protect you well
I can certainly relate to that.
Most of the time our two realms seem very far apart, and then at certain times, the boundaries between those two worlds are so thin that there is a chance to know their presence, to be comforted, uplifted and helped by those we have a special bond with - our friends in the Deva realm. I speculate that the reason they pay interest in us and we pay interest in them, is because we have been friends with each other in previous lives, and that bond is not completely broken. All of my friends in human and animal realms help me when help is required, and I help them in a similar fashion. Why would it be any different with my Deva friends?
I’ve never seen a deva… has anyone here actually had experience meeting a deva, or is this all just imagination?
Most people have never experienced Jhāna or nibbāna, but that doesn’t stop them talking about those things. It can actually be good to discuss those things, as long as it isn’t excessive. The same with devas and the like.
In the Atanatiya Sutta (DN. 32) the Buddha gives the names of those devas who have vowed to render assistance to those who have gone for refuge. So, learn their names and when you’re in dire straits just give them a yell.
- “Learn by heart, monks, the Atanata protection, constantly make use of it, bear it in mind. This Atanata protection, monks, pertains to your welfare, and by virtue of it, monks and nuns, laymen and laywomen may live at ease, guarded, protected, and unharmed.”
— Atanatiya Sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka … .piya.html
There are gods, miracles do happen
We are surrounded by devas, it’s a matter of interpreting their instructions. Having been guided by self in the beginning stage of practice, intermediate practitioners are then guided by devas:
“Now if I, having gone forth, were to think thoughts of sensuality, thoughts of ill will, or thoughts of harmfulness: great is the community of this cosmos. And in the great community of this cosmos there are brahmans & contemplatives endowed with psychic power, clairvoyant, skilled [in reading] the minds of others. They can see even from afar. Even up close, they are invisible. With their awareness they know the minds of others. They would know this of me: “Look, my friends, at this clansman who — though he has in good faith gone forth from the home life into homelessness — remains overcome with evil, unskillful mental qualities.” There are also devas endowed with psychic power, clairvoyant, skilled [in reading] the minds of others. They can see even from afar. Even up close, they are invisible. With their awareness they know the minds of others. They would know this of me: “Look, my friends, at this clansman who — though he has in good faith gone forth from the home life into homelessness — remains overcome with evil, unskillful mental qualities.”’ So he reflects on this: ‘My persistence will be aroused & not lax; my mindfulness established & not confused; my body calm & not aroused; my mind centered & unified.’ Having made the cosmos his governing principle, he abandons what is unskillful, develops what is skillful, abandons what is blameworthy, develops what is unblameworthy, and looks after himself in a pure way. This is called the cosmos as a governing principle.”—AN 3.40
“Most devas are also capable of constructing illusory forms by which they can manifest themselves to the beings of lower worlds”—Wikipedia
The Buddhist concept of impermanence includes that a person is changing minute to minute, which means their form could temporarily express a deva (or an asura). The ability to know these higher forms is one of the benefits of the work of developing samadhi.
Please note the point of the OP and do refrain from straying from the topic of discussion. This thread isn’t about providing scientific evidence for the existence of any deva or deity.
The existence of beings in many different realms is widely acknowledged in the EBTs and as a forum dedicated to discussing these texts, you will find many users who have take their existence as fact. Or at least, they are agnostic about them.
If you wish to debate scientific evidence, please do open a new topic or do it via PM .