Does anyone have a critique of the book "What's It Like To Be Enlightened?"

The “wellness” and self-help matrix is a heap of mostly toxic goop. Maybe this book is a diamond in the rough, but I think hate is a strong word, and when an author writes a book, one should expect criticism since you can’t please everybody.

If a movie director puts out a movie that scores 35% on rottentomatoes.com and they call it hate, whatever, but maybe the truth is their movie sucks?

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Thank you for your candid reply to the thread. I’m not very articulate on a keyboard, so please forgive my shortcomings.

When I said that the description of the book was cringeworthy, it wasn’t meant to denigrate the author or his writing, it was more about the definitions he attempts to explain. I checked out his website and read many of his essays (excerpts from his book) and found it quite lacking in the scope of what it really means to be enlightened (I prefer awakened), the path that leads to enlightenment, what hinders it, what aids it, etc. The same goes with the of understanding of No-Self, Consciousness, etc. Enlightenment is not just cultivating mindfulness or feeling calm. it’s a well defined path that eradicates what stands in the way by means of understanding and relinquishment (and more).

Here on Discuss & Discover, the focus is Early Buddhism, early Buddhist texts and related material. When one considers the terms Full Enlightenment, Partial Enlightenment, No-Self and Consciousness from an Early Buddhist foundation and perspective, the author’s definitions don’t get to the point and don’t make much sense.

That said, I have no hate or condescension towards the author, it’s just not Buddhist. I don’t know if what’s in his book corresponds to the PNSE system as is put forth in the article posted by @josephzizys . But I might go so far as to say that the PNSE system has practical value to anyone, but exponentially so much more if it leads a person to the teachings of the Buddha.

Thank you for the lengthly reply. You were very articulate. And I can see that you have reverence for your tradition.

The book isn’t Buddhist (or marketed as Buddhist), so naturally it is unlikely to align with everything in your tradition. I assume you know that even Buddhists disagree with each other about these core topics (what enlightenment is, how to find it, etc.). As I mentioned in another reply, the book does align very closely with later Buddhist traditions. And, for that reason, it might not be for you.

Just to be clear, the author doesn’t equate enlightenment with “just cultivating mindfulness or feeling calm.” Nor does he discuss “Consciousness.”

I can understand your preference for “awakening” since it is a better translation of “bodhi.” “Enlightenment” is actually a Western term, as you may know.

Anyhow, I came to this site to learn more about early Buddhist ideas and practices. (And this thread turned me off a bit.) But maybe you can help me gain a better understanding of the early tradition? I’ve done some reading myself and have some basic ideas, but perhaps you can give me a clear, simple description from an early Buddhist perspective of what awakening/enlightenment and non-self are?

Thanks

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“Hate” is a word younger people often use. The urban dictionary defines it as “A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.” Or, “When one puts down the success or fortune of others due to jealousy.”

That’s how the thread came off to me as a visitor. If you reread the thread, I think you could understand how one might interpret it that way.

Hopefully those reviewing the movie at least watched it. If one is going to review a book (or sutta, dharma talk, etc.), he/she needs to first read and also understand it. Ideally, he/she should be able to present the ideas in it in a way that the author would agree with. And then, if he/she has an intelligent critique, share it. It wouldn’t hurt to be constructive and compassionate. Everyone on this thread seemed to be “hating” on a book they never even read.

Again, don’t read the book if it turns you off. I’m sure you have more reading to do than you can finish in one lifetime. But no need to “hate.”

As I said, I enjoyed the book. I actually was very impressed by it. But I’m more familiar with Prasangika Madhyamika and certain Tibetan Buddhist traditions (the book isn’t Buddhist, but it aligns with those closely).

I was hoping to find something useful and positive on here about early Buddhism.

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Thank you!
I look forward to enjoying the resources and hopefully learning from them.

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On the authors website he suggests:

Full Enlightenment

Unlike partial enlightenment, full enlightenment does not rest on the experience of a deeper spiritual dimension situated beneath your everyday world—spirit, awareness, presence, or what have you. Instead, in the state of full enlightenment, all of experience is a “spiritual dimension,” you might say. This is one reason that full enlightenment is “full” and not “partial.” It doesn’t rest on a mere part or level of existence. Rather, it encompasses the fullness of experience. It comprehensively includes all that you experience—your mind, body, the world, and all things—within itself.

Therefore, even if you don’t recognize it yet, this form of enlightenment includes everything you are experiencing right now—every sight, sound, smell, feeling, thought, and everything else. There is not a single part of you, the world, or anything in the world that is excluded from it. In the state of full enlightenment, enlightenment is inseparable from all experience.

So he seems to be equating ‘enlightenment’ with saṁsāra. Which reminded me of the Nibbāna === saṃsāra? thread, which you might like @Julie_L

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I can help by saying the book mentioned has nothing to do with EBT, if that isn’t entirely clear at this point.

I can also help by saying that those two things are often asked about, and the best thing you can do is read suttas, and to dive right into those two things directly may not be most useful at this point in your practice or study, but I could be wrong. I think developing a deeper understanding of the four noble truths and the eightfold path is always the best place for somebody to go deeper, since it helps one develop more understanding of the path as a whole before going into more complex things.

Also, the fruits of practicing the N8FP and really wrapping one’s head around the 4NT can bring results that are visible in the here and now, while the other things you mention sometimes take a bit more time to truly take in, especially because of how they can impact one’s personal sense of self.

Bhikkhu Bodhi’s “In The Buddha’s Words” is really an excellent foundational text, and I strongly recommend it to all. In sutta study group I facilitated for many years, this book was really a strong base for all who came and studied. See below for more info.

Venerable @Khemarato.bhikkhu has put together quite an amazing resource at Courses @ The Open Buddhist University and here is a link to a ‘course’ of information on Nibbana Nibbāna: The Goal of Buddhist Practice @ The Open Buddhist University as for not-self go here (Deconstructing the Self @ The Open Buddhist University)

As for “In The Buddha’s Words” you can find it here: The Buddha’s Words @ The Open Buddhist University

There is quite a lot here, so if you would like to open this up into another thread, we can do that.

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Have you read the whole book?

If not, then you might be right or might be wrong as well. And when it comes to what is actually the EBT, that is also debated among monastics and lay practitioners.

I didn’t read one page. I think I made that clear in post #2 on this thread. This whole “don’t judge a book by its cover thing” is really silly. Why don’t you read it, and let me know your thoughts? Personally, I would rather spend a few hours in a Russian labor camp than sacrifice a few hours reading it. Although it does provide “[a] rare insider’s view of what many traditions call union with God or the divine”.

Awesome observation! Yes, that is the gist: samsara = nirvana.

This idea is so common in later Buddhism, it didn’t occur to me that it might run contrary to certain early Buddhist beliefs. But I read the thread you suggested (thank you, btw), and it seems most on here are comfortable with that idea. It was interesting to see an early Buddhist take on that general idea and also Nagarjuna.

Nice to “meet” you and thanks for your help!

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I’m new to EBT, but this is helpful to know. Thanks for pointing it out. I should’ve anticipated it, since it’s the same with other, later Buddhist traditions (which I’m more familiar with).

Thanks for the resource list. I browsed them, and they look excellent. I look forward to investigating further. (Preliminarily, it’s interesting to see that many of the subjects I’m familiar with from later traditions are there: “dhatu,” pure awareness, luminous mind, etc.)

You clearly have deep reverence for your tradition. And I agree with you- you should not read the book. I wish you blessings and luck on your path.

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Post nr2 wasn’t clear for me, and I maybe agree with you in a statement that says “don’t judge”, rather be aware of the judging mind!?

I’m not into reading anything in particular because it’s, to me wrong practice if it leads to accumulating non-essential information irrelevant to the direct practice.

Is that so

There are a few distinguished Buddhist teachers and sages that compare God and Dhamma as being the nature of reality. The texts and symbols aren’t the same, but those who take the wisdom to heart and give it all they got end up speaking the same language.

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I appreciate your effort in trying to drive the point home.

This is something I do not subscribe to, but sure yes, some go down that “every religion has the same goal” path, which I do not think is true, but sure.

Going off topic here, so I digress.

I don’t say that all religions are the same or point to the same. I say that saints, sages and teachers of these different religions point to the same core truth because they had taken wise pointers to heart, given all they had of effort, and thereby realised or attained a higher state of being or consciousness. And some of these saints and sages were burnt at the stake, stoned or excommunicated because they followed their hearts instead of submitting to dogmas and rites/rituals in their religions.

I don’t see that this little conservation is off-topic because, as you say yourself that you refuse even to read or accept that the writer might have valid information and wise views regarding our religion, not because he is wrong, but because you close yourself off for the possibility, and that’s not what I do in my practice.

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To be honest, I don’t even call myself a Buddhist. With that being said, you could be entirely correct.

There is, however, a limited amount of time in one’s life. In this situation, my life, so yes I make judgements regarding the content of books and other things that are marketed to an individual like myself. To compare: when going to the movies; I choose a movie that seems to be most interesting to me, and forego the rest, since having limited time on that particular day I can only see one movie. The others, I may think nothing of, some I may say to myself that movie looks silly, so I pass on it.

I think there is a big issue in modern “Western Buddhism” especially to push this whole “non-judgemental” thing, or being some kind of compassionate doormat. I don’t find this type of behavior to be entirely useful, and we as creatures are actually constantly passing judgement on things, without judgement, what do we have?

Either way, the truth remains—the book may or may not be useful. I respect your views, and you make a valid argument that deserves credit. Still, I think all people reserve the right to critique things as they see fit. It is up to us as individuals (in my opinion) to drown out the noise and take in what we want from the world of objects, ideas, etc.

I was going to clear this up earlier, but I thought it best not to, as it seemed fruitless. However, for clarity, the author does not equate union with God with (full) enlightenment. He actually distinguishes them. That is a main point of the book.

I am not trying to get you to like the book or read it (I still do not think it is for you), but I do not want you to suffer because of false beliefs. (Or to cause others to suffer because of your false beliefs.)

I do not know how to add awarewolf to this reply, but I like his statements about texts/symbols/language not being identical and attempting to see the wisdom and core truths they point to. (This is actually a strength of the book, since it attempts to distill this core in plain language so anyone [even non-Buddhists, non-religious people, and beginners] can gain a basic understanding of some of these core contemplative truths. There is nothing offensive or ignoble about that.)

Anyhow, this has been an interesting introduction to this community. The discussion has been lively, and I appreciate everyones info and help! :green_heart:

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I also prefer to leave out labelling myself as this or that, because truh is that i dont know who or what this is.
Judging is necessary, but to know what makes me judge is crucial, i think. And to me that has something to do about how well do i spend my time.

Here is a short explanation of the possible pit fall if one listen and belive the judging mind by habit.

Thank you, @Julie_L for participating in this discussion.

Again, I preface what I’m about to say with the disclaimer that I am not comfortable expressing myself via a keyboard, particularly with such a vast topic.

My initial juxtaposition between what I understand about what the Buddha achieved and what I’ve understood about PNSE is along the lines of investigation, clear comprehension and intentional action.

In his own words and generally in the Buddhist suttas, the Buddha-to-be was a brilliant man who didn’t want to chase that which was subject to decay and was determined to get to the bottom of dukkha, to find a way to ultimate peace and, for lack of a better contextual description, become enlightened.

In his noble quest, he devoted himself to existing practices of his time, various teachers and yet, with penetrating investigation, went beyond the norm and found where things lacked and din’t lead to nibbana. He experimented, developing that which led towards nibbana and abandoned dead ends, never ceasing to keep going deeper.

In the end, when he finally prevailed, he was in awe of what he had done and did not initially think that he would be able to teach to others, as it was too deep and complex. Fortunately for us, he spent the next 40 years of his life doing his best to do just that. His painstaking detail about what dukkha is, how it arises, how it ceases, the path to escape samsara, the hinderances, the faculties and powers one needs to develop, what to make of what one encounters along the path is where great guidance comes from.

For instance, per the Buddha, teasing apart the 5 Aggregates of Clinging, breaking down namarupa and consciousness as well as their mutually reciprocating dependence on one another and picking apart sankharas goes a long way to undermine a sense of self.

In the paper on PNSE, I notice that there’s a considerable instability of the enlightenment that the participants experienced. Could it be that it’s because one hasn’t consciously and deliberately seen the gratification, the danger and the escape of the world? If one is wandering through forests, deserts and across waters and, by chance, arrives at the destination, hooray! But so much better to have a guide to lead there and stay there. Having full comprehensive insight into all aspects of experience and beyond provides a foundation that one doesn’t easily lose. The Buddha ultimately realized the cycle of samsara in a way that freed him from it and that’s what he taught.

Perhaps it’s inspirational, but I don’t see that kind of guidance from the book of the OP. Not that what the author has experienced isn’t something awesome; who wouldn’t rather be in a state like that rather than being miserable, wandering the world offending people? Yet I love the Buddha’s teachings because it gives me direction so that I can see for myself what’s going on and I can follow the Buddha’s example and, hopefully, ultimately enter the stream to awakening.

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Thank you for taking the time to share that. I am touched by your words. You expressed yourself beautifully via the keyboard. :slightly_smiling_face:

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