Does (rāga, dosa, moha) have a name in EBT as a group?

Q & A
1

In KN Pe, it calls them 3 unwholesome roots, tīṇi akusala-mūlāni

(first paragraph 72. talks about tīṇi akusala-mūlāni (3 unskillful roots) and 5niv (hindrances) removal.

:diamonds: tattha a-lobhassa pāripūriyā nekkhamma-vitakkaṃ vitakketi.
Here, for non-greed fulfillment, renunciation-thoughts (he) thinks.
tattha a-dosassa pāripūriyā abyāpāda-vitakkaṃ vitakketi.
for non-hatred fulfillment, renunciation-thoughts (he) thinks.
tattha a-mohassa pāripūriyā avihiṃsā-vitakkaṃ vitakketi.
for non-delusion fulfillment, renunciation-thoughts (he) thinks.

SC is pretty awesome. A similar topic showed up on a pop up window, I clicked the link to a previous discussion thread, and it gave me the answer I was asking.

akusalamūlasuttaṃ n (AN 3.70)

“tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, akusalamūlāni. katamāni tīṇi? lobho akusalamūlaṃ, doso akusalamūlaṃ, moho akusalamūlaṃ.

Is rāga and lobha, can they be interchanged synonymously when we see the 3am (akusala mula) together?

edit, addition:
So to confirm, is 3am the official EBT designation? Is it known by other names? In the fire sermon, those 3 are the fire of rāga, fire of dosa, fire of moha.

I also just noticed, 3am (akusala mula), reminds me of 3a.m., which happens to be the time Ajahn Mun and Ajahn Chah say we should be awake and engaged in combat with the 3am.

2

Not EBT but it seems to be called the three poisons in Sanskrit. Mula root, is the Pali term. lobha and raga have similar meanings though I am not sure if they are the same. These three things should get more coverage in sermons because absence of these I believe denotes the mind of an arahanth, is used to understand which teacher to have, etc. in EBTs.

With metta

3

Do you happen to know what the sanskrit word and source are? I read a long time ago, if I recall correctly, the Chinese Buddhism (not sure if it was referring to Mahayana or inclusive of Agamas, but if agamas, then that would point to sanskrit scriptural source), that since China is a cold country, the idea of the 3am being on fire, burning, having a bad connotation, didn’t make sense in China where fire and warmth warding off the cold was important. Hence, 3 poisons term was coined.

I think a good english translation for “tīṇi a-kusala-mūlāni” (literally three-un-wholesome-roots) would be “The Trinity of Un-wholesome roots”, or shorthand, “The Un-holy trinity”.

It just sounds more epic. When I say I’m going to go do battle with “3 unwholesome roots”, it sounds like I’m going to fight 3 angsty teenagers from a rock band with that name. But if you tell people you’re in full-scale war with the Unholy trinity, armed with your sword of samadhi named “death-dealer”, then they know you’re serious.

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4

This has often confused me as well, and I don’t claim to have a definitive answer, but exploring with the DPR you get this :

rāga: colour; hue; dye; lust; attachment.

lobha: greed; covetousness

both definitions also include " most often found with dosa and moha has the three roots" but as far as I can tell the overwhelming majority of times the three roots are mentioned in the suttas, it’s lobha dosa moha instead of raga dosa moha. so it seems to me the words are pretty much synonyms.

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5

Found this:

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6

Attachment aversion and ignorance are the three sides of the same coin.

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=15156&hilit=

7

Another name for the group – lobha-dosa-moha – that has been used is something like the “three gateways to liberation”.

I think it was in a talk by Shaila (Sila) Catherine; no source or dating mentioned.

The idea is plausible in that it uses the double-negative sort of semantic that is a characteristic of many Buddha teachings. E.g. metta: “free from” negative states; and Right Speech: “not” false, harsh, untimely,… In this case, the negation of the poisons (negative) leads to liberation. :confused:

8

perhaps this passage from AN 3.68

(1) “[Suppose they ask:] ‘But what, friends, is the reason unarisen lust does not arise and arisen lust is abandoned?’ You should answer: ‘An unattractive object. For one who attends carefully to an unattractive object, unarisen lust does not arise [201] and arisen lust is abandoned. This, friends, is the reason unarisen lust does not arise and arisen lust is abandoned.’

555(2) “[Suppose they ask:] ‘But what, friends, is the reason unarisen hatred does not arise and arisen hatred is abandoned?’ You should answer: ‘The liberation of the mind by loving-kindness. For one who attends carefully to the liberation of the mind by loving-kindness, unarisen hatred does not arise and arisen hatred is abandoned. This, friends, is the reason unarisen hatred does not arise and arisen hatred is abandoned.’

556(3) “[Suppose they ask:] ‘But what, friends, is the reason unarisen delusion does not arise and arisen delusion is abandoned?’ You should answer: ‘Careful attention. For one who attends carefully, unarisen delusion does not arise and arisen delusion is abandoned. This, friends, is the reason unarisen delusion does not arise and arisen delusion is abandoned.’”

9

The 3 fires. So far as I understand it is the Buddha’s satire of the 3 sacred fires of the Brahmins. Brahmins have to kep those 3 fires burning. Nibbana is the extinguishing of those fires - it literally means blowing out fire.

And the result of extinguishing those fires (nibbāna) is tevijja - the 3 knowledges. That’s the term for when someone memorises the 3 vedas. Again it is satire. He redefined that Brahmanical term to mean his own special 3 knowledges - but how serious he really was about that, I don’t know. Maybe even those 3 were not serious, like ‘enlightenment is exactly like this, these three’ - it could have rather been just a joking way to fit this wonderous enlightenment into a set of three for this joke, in which case maybe we should not be too serious about the literal meaning of those 3. A humerous way of twisting Brahminical doctrine to jab fun at them, maybe ridicule them a bit too. Maybe because they took themselves so seriously!

And then he even made fun of their precious term ajjhāyaka, reciters of the vedas, for which he gave his joke for the supposed etymology being people who don’t practice jhāna! Seems he made a lot of anti-Brahminanical jokes. Even paṭiccasamuppāda too, apparently.

10

Enlightenment doesn’t entail all 3, all the time:

“Then, having known thus, having seen thus, do you recollect your manifold past lives (lit: previous homes), i.e., one birth, two births, three births, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, one hundred, one thousand, one hundred thousand births, many aeons of cosmic contraction, many aeons of cosmic expansion, many aeons of cosmic contraction & expansion, [recollecting], ‘There I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance. Such was my food, such my experience of pleasure & pain, such the end of my life. Passing away from that state, I re-arose here’?”

"No, friend

“We’re released through discernment, friend Susima.” SN12.70

With metta

11

I think this may have been the original term:

  1. The Fires
    This was said by the Lord…
    “Bhikkhus, there are these three fires. What three? The fire of lust, the fire of hate, and the fire of delusion. These, bhikkhus, are the three fires.”
    The fire of lust burns mortals
    Infatuated by sensual pleasures;
    The fire of hate burns malevolent people
    Who kill other living beings;
    .
    The fire of delusion burns the bewildered,
    Ignorant of the Noble One’s Dhamma.
    Being unaware of these three fires,
    Humankind delights in personal existence
    .
    Unfree from the bonds of Māra
    They swell the ranks of hell,
    Existence in the animal realm,
    Asura-demons and the sphere of ghosts
    .
    But those engaged in practising
    The Buddha’s teaching day and night
    Ever perceiving the body’s foulness,
    Extinguish the fire of lust.
    Those best of humans by loving-kindness
    Extinguish the fire of hate,
    And they extinguish the fire of delusion
    By wisdom that leads to penetration
    .
    Having extinguished these fires,
    Unwearied night and day,
    Those discerning ones attain Nibbāna
    And overcome all suffering
    .
    The noble seers, masters of knowledge,
    Wise ones with perfect understanding,
    By directly knowing the end of birth
    Come no more to renewal of being.

with metta

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