Does Secular Buddhism possess the 'skilful means' that is required for the understanding of ‘transpersonal' Dharma?

Thank you Mat - with your comment - we have now established that the use of the term (transpersonal) is appropriate with regard to the Jhanas - and various other important topics in the Buddha’s teachings. Clearly, there is a perception among (some) Secular Buddhists that the ‘transpersonal aspects of the teachings’ are controversial or problematic - as evidenced in this thread - for (various reasons). The reasons may include a conceptual deficit - a limitation - in the language-game* of Secular Buddhism? Making it difficult to talk about the transpersonal teachings of the Buddha in a coherent and reasonable way. This seems likely - don’t you think? Different ‘forms of discourse’ contain different terms and definitions that reflect their specific areas of concern.

The other concern that some Secular Buddhists have is related to their ideology. Many Secular Buddhists lack an open-mind when it comes to the teachings of the Buddha - as found in the EBT’s. However, they may ‘pretend’ to be open-minded for ideological reasons.

Many - not all - Secular Buddhists operate from a ‘cognitive and perceptual background’ that determines what is possible - and impossible - according to their preset conclusions and ideological commitments. They then tend to dismiss or trivialise important aspects of the Buddha’s teachings. They may dismiss early teachings on the basis of a (claim) to modern understanding. They say, that many of the Buddha’s insights are the fables or myths of the ‘ancients’ - people who did not know better!

Some Secular Buddhists believe they know-better than ‘traditional’ Buddhists because they (claim) that many modern findings have discredited various teachings. Truth-claims of this nature is ideology in disguise! They ‘cherry-pick’ what they like in the teachings and ignore that which does not fit into their Secular Buddhist ideology. This leads to an intransigence - an inability to move freely - to be open to surprise! This is also true of people with a commitment to religious ideologies - that have been adopted without due reflection.

We cannot wake-up unless we are ‘open’ to ‘new’ and transformative forms of liberating insight. This is an indispensable virtue in the Buddha-Dharma.

Regarding your comment about the noosphere: “This cannot be experienced - an envelope of consciousness around the world -so must be relegated to box named ‘imagination’.”

We do not have to believe in the existence of a subtle sphere of consciousness enveloping the world to understand the meaning of the term: noosphere! We can understand it as a ‘lexical analogy’. An analogy is not an actual sphere or domain enveloping anything - it can be used to refer to the ‘world’ of human concepts and ideas! We are inhabiting that ‘world’ as we inquire and explore the theme of this thread.

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My assessment of this thread is that you posed an argument that relied on several premises or axioms. The feedback you received from 3/4 respondents could be summarized as “huh? I don’t understand the premises”.
For instance my understanding of the implications of the noosphere seemed to be the opposite of yours.

It seems to me that you interpret “in way do you mean that, please say more” as proof of your conclusions rather than taking the Occam’s razor path. That “I don’t understand” or “that is vague with multiple plausible meanings, please narrow it down” may have been intended as a “I don’t understand but I’m willing to listen”.


What is the evidence in this thread of references to " transpersonal dimension of the Buddha’s teachings" that are “controversial or problematic”?
Again, you may be confusing other people’s confusion with conclusions.

There is a secular Buddhist sitting right over there. Let me ask her.

She says she likes transpersonal stuff and asks similar questions about how coherent and reasonable the anti-secular Buddhist thinking is.

Correction. Many anti-secular Buddhists do that too.

If this is to be about throwing dogmatic assertions around then I can come up with my set of highly plausible ones. Thus, to ‘turn around’ a recent statement , it seems plausible to assert:

Critics of secular Buddhism ‘cherry-pick’ what they like in the teachings and ignore that which does not fit into their ideology - this is completely self-evident! This leads to an intransigence - an inability to move freely - to be open to surprise!

IMO the paragraph above is in the dogmatic territory – yet I believe it fairly captures a pattern of expression found in recent threads critical of secular Buddhism. This technique of ‘turning around’ or ‘turning back’ what we say about others is a powerful technique for ‘catching ourselves out’ and uncovering our own blindspots.


Speaking of surprises … The philosophy of science is perhaps a lot more open to the transpersonal than you think.
Because of this, IMO, the “reductionists” and dualists on this site are well represented among the critics of secular Buddhism.

For example:
Metaphysics and the Philosophy of Science: New Essays

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A reminder friends!!

Please avoid anything that may even have the appearance of personal or ‘ad hominem’ attack, as this is against our forum guidelines.
Thank you!

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I don’t understand what you mean are you making a comment or asking a question? You are welcome to add something of consequence if you find this thread meaningless?

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So , the Buddha enlightenment had to do with the nine steps of jhana ?

But , some think Nirodhasamapatti only can be accessed by arahant .

However , the 9 th stage i.e. the Nirodhasamapatti also attained by the other ascetics .

Where did you hear this?

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I guess I was wrong , thought heard it from a YouTube . Apology .

Probably another topic- suttas say non-returners come out from nirodhasamapatti and become arahanths (not sure what EBTs say about those lower than non-returner).

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A Secular Buddhist could keep an open-mind and be undecided with regard to the transpersonal teachings of the Buddha.

An open-minded attitude is next to impossible for those who have strong ideological commitments that deny the existence of transpersonal insights. Secular Buddhist practitioners who are also ‘believers’ of Scientism would not accept the existence of transpersonal insights. See the first definition of Scientism (below):

  1. Scientism is the view that only scientific claims are meaningful.

  2. Scientism can also be used to refer to the methods and attitudes typical of or attributed to the natural scientist.

A believer of Scientism would not be willing to accept those aspects of the Buddha’s teachings that have not been validated through empirical techniques and procedures. They would never accept the truth of any statement found in Buddhist teachings on the basis of the Buddha’s methods of inquiry as for them ‘empiricism’ is the only valid means to arrive at compelling and persuasive evidence and results. The possibility of a ‘contemplative science’ that did not meet empirical requirements would be labelled as: pseudo-science or complete nonsense!

It just so happens that there are many people in society at large - with a secular orientation - that express an interest in Secular Buddhism. It is likely, that many of these ‘converts’ are not aware of the underlying assumptions in Scientism. They may have views and opinions that are scientistic in nature and they view the Buddha’s teachings through a scientistic prism. This is what I was referring to with regard to preset conclusions and ideological commitments - earlier in this thread. It takes time and research to sort out the confusion. Not everyone has the time or interest to bring all the pieces together. Without this interest and effort misunderstandings proliferate!

Paradigmatic shifts and iterative transformational combinations do not require metaphysical explanations. Modern practice is less focused on what was true 2500 years ago and more on what we have learned since then. Bikkhu Bodhi has answered this same question in discussions online, including podcast with Robert Wright. His answer dependent on whether one was radical atheist or agnostic/open. Secular practice is not homogeneous. Neither is the sangha.