Does Supramundane in Buddhadharma mean 'Superconsciousness'?

The Watercooler
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I have been thinking on this for sometime and I feel if we could use a more modern terminology to the word Supramundane (lokuttara). In psychology we deal a lot with subconscious and unconscious and almost nothing on Superconscious through development of higher mind and whole psyche, which becomes accessible through mindfulness meditation and absorption (samma sati and samma samadhi). I am seeing some recent book(s) on Superconsciousness and how to communicate with it and access it directly without meditation to reprogram our negative and limiting subconscious beliefs.

I am also contemplating the difference between natural human intelligence (embodied wisdom and superconscious knowing) and artificial intelligence. Although I am amazed at AIs’ ability to quickly summarize vast amount of information depending on the question asked. Yet there are potential downside in that how it might limit our human contemplation (bhavana) and development of spiritual and natural faculties (attention span, human connection, sensory data processing, sensitivity to emotions, faith, energy, mindfulness, concentration, embodied wisdom, intuition and whole brain development). Knowing something intellectually through ideas and concepts is not same thing as embodied wisdom, self-knowledge and intuitive self-expression and self-regulation.

Can AI distinguish information coming from wise minds and deluded minds?

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I believe in buddhism ‘supramundane’ does not refer to some superconsciousness in the form of a higher being, higher power or higher self which one communicates with.

I think that one can say that the kind of intelligence of the supramundane is like a uninvolved not established (on something specific) pure kind of knowing or awareness. A knowing that is an sich not of this world, i.e. it not involved with sense domains or sense-objects. Sense-vinnana’s do not establish, so there is nothing felt or perceived in some engaged way.

Maybe something like ‘original mind’, 'authenticity, or just the awakened mind, pure presence?

A knowing that is not like a program, conditioning, habit, pattern, a line of commands.

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Super/ hyper - conscious/ consciousness/ awareness comes across more likely to be understood by the avg joe ( non Buddhist) imo

I considered ‘mega’ … but that sounds sorta ego tripper sounding for some reason to me.

Supra mundane is prob not in the avg persons terms of instant ref imo.

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Some fragments about the supramundane from the sutta’s (all from Bodhi):

“My mind is well disposed for awakening to the truths. This is the first knowledge attained by him that is noble, supramundane, not shared by ordinary people”. MN48

“I, brahmin, declare the noble supramundane Dhamma as a person’s own wealth”. (MN96)

…"right view that is noble, taintless, supramundane, a factor of the path". (MN117)

"When he abides contemplating rise and fall in these five aggregates affected by clinging, the conceit ‘I am’ based on these five aggregates affected by clinging is abandoned in him. When that is so, that bhikkhu understands: ‘The conceit “I am” based on these five aggregates affected by clinging is abandoned in me.’ In that way he has full awareness of that.
“These states have an entirely wholesome basis; they are noble, supramundane, and inaccessible to the Evil One”. (MN122)

"When those discourses spoken by the Tathagata that are deep, deep in meaning, supramundane, dealing with emptiness, are being recited they will not be eager to listen to them, nor lend an ear to them, nor apply their minds to understand them; and they will not think those teachings should be studied and mastered. (SN20.7, SN55.53))

Things that seem to be associated with the supramundane:

  • emptiness
  • a kind of knowledge not shared by ordinairy people (a special kind of knowledge)
  • ones own wealth
  • taintless, spotless, pure; free from fetters; free from me and mine-making
  • an entirely wholesome basis
  • inaccessible to Mara (evil deeds cannot change it or make it worse)
  • that what is not involved with sense domains, with khandha’s
  • transcendent
  • peace unaffected by the worldly troubles, unworldly peace

The sutta’s also call it: mind free of limits or just liberated mind (AN10.81)

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@Green , Yes, Supramundane or Superconsciousness in my view is a dimension or field of intelligence beyond the five sensory conscious and subconscious human egoic mind (or consciousness) identified with body-mind-experience and conditioned by identity-views and doubts. My sense is small children learn and act from pure kind of knowing and awareness. With schooling we focus exclusively on outside learning, secondary knowledge and lose connection with inner knowing, that is ‘not of this world’ as you say. The meaning of Sati (remembering) comes from this knowing side or connection with supramundane through moment to moment mindful-meditation. Our detached psychic (many are not detached) and extra-sensory perceptions (ESP) give us intuitive insight and strengthens our spiritual faculties.

There was a study done over the years on level of creative genius on 4-5 year olds and it was found to be very high 98%, by high school it goes down to 12% and for adults it is only 2%. [Source].

I am curious what the Buddha spoke about ‘Panna’ or intuitive wisdom?

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No, supramundane does not mean superconsciousness.

In Theravada, there are said to be nine supramundane realities, namely the four paths, the four fruits, and Nibbana. Each of the paths and fruits is a kind of consciousness, and could be considered a “superconsciousness”. But this is a little beside the point, as these moments are believed to be significant not because of the kind of consciousness they are, but because of their function, to sever the fetters. The ninth supramundane reality is Nibbana, which is not a kind of consciousness at all.

The word lokuttara, which you are translating as “supramundane”, means “beyond the world”. So it doesn’t have any explicit connection with consciousness. The analysis above is in terms of the Abhidhamma, which which it is mostly associated, but in the suttas it has a similar sense of being “beyond the world” or “leading beyond the world”. The suttas, for example, are “supramundane” because they lead beyond the world.

A better fit for “superconsciousness” would be the term adhicitta, “higher mind” or “elevated consciousness”, which is a word for jhana. This is semantically similar to “superconsciousness”, but the things they are using this term for are way short of jhana.

AI cannot distinguish anything. It accepts a stream of data and, based on statistical probabilities created by burning the energy of entire nations and consuming the entire world’s plagiarized data, it spits out a stream of data that is represented to you as a sequence of Unicode glyphs on a screen. It means nothing. But its makers want to fool you into thinking that it has a meaning, so that you will apply concepts like “distinguish” and “summarize” as if it were doing the same thing that you would do if you did the work. They want to condition you to believe this so that they can take your job and render your life meaningless, and ultimately to replace humanity with machines.

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It is not that difficult to intuitively understand, i feel, that there is a dimension in our lifes that is without constructing activity, i.e. without grasping. This is called Nibbana, the stilling of all constructing activity, cessation, peace, detachment.

It is called supramundane because it is not yet involved in any sense-domain (no grasping). It can be seen as an unwordly peace. ’ Unworldly’ because without grasping and involvement in the senses.

But very quickly grasping arises and there is involvement with the senses. States are constructed. A whole mental world arises with a sense of me, mine and my self.
This constructed mental world all the time arises and ceases.

But is is not that difficult to intuitively see this dimension without grasping.
Maybe some people have a better intuition for this than others?

Grasping is never constant present from birth until arahanthood. Grasping always conditionally arises in the moment. This is also why we can have a basic understanding of Dhamma, and have some initial recognition of that unwordly peace, that dimension without grasping, Nibbana.

Indeed, society is all about grasping. It stimulates it. But there are people that intuitively understand that this dimension of not-grasping, the unwordly peace, is not some illusion and is our wealth and refuge.

Nibbana is not a sense vinnana or a consciousness. It refers to this unwordly peace, this dimension without grasping. Not yet being lost in conceit and conceivings. We are not yet lost in this mental world of a me, mine and my self sphere.

All spiritual qualities are based upon Nibbana, dispassion, based upon a totally wholesome base, pure. Which is this open dimension without grasping, egoless.

Suttas distinguis between right view which is mundane and not based upon dispassion, and right view that is noble, based upon dispassion (MN117)

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A better fit for “superconsciousness” would be the term adhicitta, “higher mind” or “elevated consciousness”, which is a word for jhana. This is semantically similar to “superconsciousness”, but the things they are using this term for are way short of jhana.

Thank you Bhante@Sujato for your explanation and clarification. Actually what I was referring to by superconsciousness was supramundane states of mind and consciousness: ‘lokuttara citta’ and yes by superconsciousness I meant, wholesome states of samadhi jhanas that go or lead beyond this mundane world.

Are there any Suttas which talks about “adhicitta” (sounds like original or primordial mind)? Also wondering if “adhicitta” is someway connected to “aditthana” (one of the 10 paramis).

On AI

They want to condition you to believe this so that they can take your job and render your life meaningless, and ultimately to replace humanity with machines.

Yes I agree bhante, my intent on asking the question is to encourage the readers to think deeply on what true intelligence is. I sense AI is a product of egoic mind and consciousness, which in the absence of life affirming ethics, is willing to do more harm in the name of “help”. Appamada is needed :smile:

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yes, it’s a standard term in the suttas. You have it, for example, in the Ovada Patimokkha, adhicitte ca āyogo, “striving in the higher mind”, i.e. “practicing jhanas”.

Ahh, that’s a different word, ādicitta, which is not found in the Pali canon.

No. The prefix adhi- is very common, it generally means “higher, elevated, intensified”.

Indeed yes. It’s a really important point actually. In Buddhism, the mind is largely conditioned by ethics. You have to start by behaving well, and then you can develop a more wholesome mind. AIs have no hiri-otappa and hence no morality. They are not just psedointelligences, they are pseudopsychopaths. Like a psychopath, they can lean to emulate good behavior so as to pass among regular folk. But it is never more than a veneer.

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When you examine you can see there are formations in yourself that construct a seemingly solid mental world of me, mine, my self. If you examine you will see that these are passions. Passions well up and when they well up they tend to construct a mental world of me, mine, my self. In other words, when they well up we become absorbed in conceivings.

When there is a lot of volitional force in it, then this constructed mental world of me, mine, my self is also experienced as very real and solid. That is why the sutta’s teach that ignorace and welling up passions they are mutual dependend.
I think that many people see this constructed mental world with a notion of me, mine and my self as mind.

But what the Buddha teaches is that this is not mind but the realm of conceiving, Mara’s realm. A mental construction due to grasping. We just spinn around in our heads and are absorbed by the projection of the mind. Like a dog chasing her tail.
And being absorbed in this story telling world, it all feels very real and solid, while it is empty, without any core, mere insubstantial formations but still experienced as very real and solid.

But yet this is not mind. This is being absorbed in conceivings. Mind is not story like or cinematic or with a narrative. That is the nature of conceiving not of mind.

We can also see that this mental world of me, mine, my self is constructed. It does fully rely on constructing formations. In short, on grasping. You can also escape it any moment. Just step out of this cinematic world, out of the narrative. Let go of conceiving. Buddha taught conceiving as a disease.

The constructed mental world of me, mine, my self is only due to grasping. A Buddha has done away with all that constructs this world unwillingly (7 anusaya)
He abides in the unconstructed, meaning in the true nature of the mind.

When there is no grasping, there is also not a mental domain constructed with a sense of me, mine, my self. This is called the original mind in some traditions or buddha nature. It is by nature dispassionate. without narrative. Peaceful, empty, uninclined, cooled or extinguished. These are words that reveal the true nature of mind. What is unconstructed cannot be seen coming and going, unlike formations. What is unconstructed also has no measure .

Mind in its purity is the forerunner of all phenomena (dhp1). It also means, all beings have a completey wholesome pure base, egoless, without narrative. Even the psychopaths, narcists, hell being, mara’s. But passions are often strong, and when arising they construct a seemingly very solid world of me, mine, my self. And when this has becomes our world, and rules our thinking, speaking, acting, that will also be defiled. We will not think, speak and act for our own and others wellbeing at that moment.

Look at it! How easy there is this construction of a mental world of me, mine and my self and how easy are we absorbed in it and take this as reality?
It is amazing how quickly such goes, right? Passions can be so strong too!

Supramundane refers to that domain free of conceiving, free of grasping, free of me, mine, my self making. No narrative is present. Reality is no story. That is what it really means to see things as they really are. No conceiving takes place upon what is felt, seen, heard, known.

And we all know this dimension. It is not something that we create, make or produce. A fish might be blind for the presence of water because it is always present. Likewise we can be blind for the supramundane. We are not blind for it because it is so exceptional and rare, not at all, we are blind for it because it is most common. It is impossible to be seperated from the supramundane. A Dutch teacher which i very much respect, recently diseased, said about this: you cannot fall out of it.

I also realize, increasingly, that Dhamma is for certain types of people, not all, like the sutta’s say. If one is very much in love with this constructed world of me, mine, my self, this personal existence, it does not seem likely that one will be interested to escape it. Somehow one must also feel, recognize, appreciate that reality and we ourselves are not a story. I believe this is the door to religion, to God, to reality, to the amazing.

Our world today is so much about stories. Stories, stories, stories.
Conceit and conceiving rule. It is experieced as mind and as reality. This means: Mara rules. Yes also in me.

sorry, still wanted to take part.

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Thank you Bhante @Sujato for the clarification, Adicitta is not same as ‘adhicitta’ in Pali. I also misspelled the Pali word ‘adhitthana’ as ‘aditthana’.

I agree bhante,

Without ethical boundaries, lack of empathy, cognitive distortions and strong desire for control, it seems the minds of psycopaths, narcissists and sociopaths (the dark triads) are exposed and influenced by various unconscious and invisible forces of Maras (Klesha mara, Skandhamara, Karmic formations, Maras of death, Sensual realm and Asura realms). Even Buddha was visited by Maras several times to prevent his awakening. In a secular world we do not think much about Maras. We should.

Related Discussion Link .

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i have seen this in the suttas:

All what is rooted in passion, not based upon dispassion, is called ‘mundane’. What is rooted and based upon passion does not free from samsara. All thinking, speech and actions that are based upon passion are rooted in six roots: lobha, dosa, moha and alobha, adosa and amoha. It is karmically active.

Supramundane is all that is rooted in and based upon dispassion. It has no footing in those 6 roots. It is not karmically active. Unloaded.

"And how, Ananda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path? Here, Ananda, a bhikkhu develops right view, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. He develops right intention . . . right speech.…etc (SN3.18)

For example: A mind that has still a view that there is really an Ego, self that feels and knows, inside us or others, its thinking, speech and action are not based upon dispassion. They are not based upon the supra mundane right view that there is no ego. Those actions are not yet connected with purity.

Our way of thinking, speech and actions are often rooted in and based upon long standing habitual forces, conditionings, patterns, anusaya (one can also say, based upon the 6 roots). These can be wholesome and unwholesome but all these are mundane karmically active actions. They are all based upon avijja and tanha (SN12.51), also the wholesome ones.

If our thinking, speech and actions are rooted in 6 roots it is not based upon dispassion, and is mundane.

Supramundane is not connected with habitual forces, conditionings, passions. It is as it were not connected to the past like conditionings always are. It is free, empty, unfettered. It is not a superconsciousness but a different base from which actions arise. They do not arise from 6 roots.

MN117 is also an important one about the difference in mundane and supramundane noble path.

For me it was helpful to see this. Hope this may be of help for others too.