Does "time theft" or "Shirking" violate pañcasīla?

Let’s say a worker works in the digital field and usually spends their time receiving a task, thinking through the implementation, designing a solution, and then implementing it.

Their contract might state something like:
The Employee shall be employed on a full-time basis; i.e., forty (40) hours per week. Working hours are primarily during office hours, Monday to Friday.

However, the worker has a habit (perhaps an unwholesome one) of working in bursts. It’s difficult for them to work consistently every day. Instead, their usual way of operating involves slacking off on some days - reading, browsing forums or news, consuming information, or even napping when working from home - and then switching into “heavy focus” mode on other days to get things done.

Typically, this approach on leads to good performance and hasn’t caused problems for many years. But some jobs require reporting the actual time spent on each project, which creates anxiety. It’s not possible to simply log four or five hours on a slow day (even if accurate), since the system allows only a ±2-hour discrepancy. So the worker logs eight hours every day, even if the real amount of work is sometimes less - or sometimes more.

Let’s say the worker in question receives monthly salary and is not billed by hour.

This raises a question: does such behavior violate the second or fourth precepts? It’s unclear who actually reviews these reports; usually they’re mainly used for capacity planning, though they might sometimes be examined individually.

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The account keeping for sila is in our own hearts in the form of hiri and ottappa. Even if no one else is watching your conduct you truly know whether you are taking advantage of a situation

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I think you might just be misconstruing what actually constitutes “work” in the case you describe. If the worker’s process involves periods of “:downtime” and then bursts of activity, but the bursts of activity cannot happen without the “downtime”, then both aspects of the process are “work”, it’s just some of the work is occurring “internally” as the worker “processes” the task, and some of the work is occurring “externally” as they implement the solution they have gestated in the “down” time.

It’s all work.

As for the sila, the worker is accepting a fixed monthly salary for delivering the project, so they are not “taking what is not given”, in terms of false speech, see above, if the worker believes that they could not deliver without the “downtime” part of their process then they should report their 8 hours a day and be content.

If the worker is actually thinking that some of their “downtime” is actually morphing into “slacking off”, then perhaps it’s time to look for another role that better reflects and engages their passions!

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Creative work tends to be this way. It’s not like mindless physical work that can (and often must) be done continuously for 8-12 hours a day. I once heard a story about a famous science fiction writer’s work method. He would wait until the deadline was a couple days away and then drink tons of coffee, perhaps supplemented with some other stimulants, and work without sleep for an entire day or two. Once the story was written, he would crash until the next deadline. It worked for him and was the only way he could pull stories out of his mind. It had to involve massive amounts of pressure.

My own work habits as a translator sound about the same as your own. Some weeks are more productive than others. Some months are more productive than others. But that has as much to do with the difficulty of what I am working on as it does my own motivation. There’s only so much effort that I can exert until downtime is required. I’ve learned to not try to impose quotas on myself, a bad habit from my factory worker days.

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would the initials of this writer be P, K and D?

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Um … no, but he was a writer from the same era. I don’t actually recall now - ugh. The story was told by Harry Turtledove on Twitter, of all places. Apparently Douglas Adams was known for pulling all nighters before a deadline. He has the famous joke, “I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Ajahn Brahm has a nice story about this from one of his Dhamma talks. The excerpt below is copy-pasted (with added paragraphs for readability) from the very rough transcript, so the impact would be better if you ignore reading it and instead listen to him tell it.

Ajahn Brahm's story

There is another part of the human being which we call the ability to restrain, to be able to see the consequences of our actions and to realize, yes, that just going with those urges gives like momentary satisfaction, but long term harm and pain and difficulty. Is that aspect of a human being. To sort of assess the consequences of their actions. Which stops one. And that’s something which we develop, especially, you know, in the practice of meditation. The Buddha actually gave it words. He called it hero tipa. He said it’s the fear of the karmic consequences of your action and also a sense of conscience or shame. I don’t want to do this even if no one else finds out and I can’t live with myself. I’ve done something wrong. I know it’s wrong. I’ve hurt someone, I’ve hurt myself. Or the karmic consequences is even more important that each one of you have lived long enough. Now you see the consequences of some actions. No, you don’t get away with things. You think you might get away with it. But you know you see yourself doing that.

It’s an old story I haven’t told us for a long time. It’s a story of this, uh, Indian teacher a long time ago, and he had a number of students. And it was the custom. This was like 1000 or 2000 years ago, 2500 years ago. And the time where, like one wise teacher would have just a number of students, maybe about 10 or 12, and teach them everything they want to know about life and also about sort of morality and religion and and counting and English and everything else, or Sanskrit in those days. And this teacher had one daughter, and his daughter was very, very beautiful. Okay. It’s a bit sexist, but this is 2500 years ago. Okay. And had one very beautiful daughter. And all the students wanted to marry her.

So one day the teacher brought all the students together and said, look, I know you’d all want to marry my very, very beautiful daughter. And according to our custom, you know, this is 2500 years ago. I have to marry her to one of my students. But I can’t think which one to marry her to. So we’re going to give you a test. It’s a test of obedience, but it’s also it solves another problem I have because being a teacher, I’m very, very poor. And I know that whoever marries my daughter will need like a house, or need some cooking stuff and need all the stuff to set up in life, and I haven’t got that much money. So what I want you to do, each student, I want you to go to the nearest villages. I want you to steal things from the village. The test of your obedience. And whoever steals the most will be able to marry my daughter. Because I know, therefore, you’re hard working and resourceful. But also, whatever your steal will all put together. And whoever sort of steals. And Rosa knows my daughter will get all the loot and that will be able to set you up. Okay, but but be careful, you said, because we have to be careful. Don’t let anyone see you stealing. I have to remember that. Don’t let anyone see you stealing. Otherwise you know who might know what might happen.

So all the students were quite surprised because their teacher was usually a very, very honest, very upstanding and moral person. And they wondered what was going on. But they liked the girl and they were obedient. So okay. Off they went. And they stuck in the houses at night time. They steal this. They stole that. And after a week, the teacher called them all together and say, okay, you can stop. Stop stealing now, because we’ve already got so much stuff. That’s enough here to set up anybody, any couple happily in their first months of marriage. And now I want to announce sort of who’s stolen the most. But before I announce who stolen the most, there’s one of my students here who hasn’t stolen anything. You disobedient young man. Why didn’t you follow my instructions? He said to this poor little student. And he still said. But, master, I did follow your instructions. Well, why didn’t you steal anything then? He said to his master. I went into the houses at night time. I waited for the occupants to fall asleep or to go out. And then I snuck in and I snuck in, and I was about to sort of grab hold of some money or some jewelry. Then I noticed that somebody was watching, and you told me, don’t steal if somebody is looking. And the master said, but I thought you said all the people had gone out of the house who was watching? And the students said, I was watching. I was watching me steal. And you told me, don’t take anything if someone’s looking. I’m lucky, he said.

And that the master said, oh, thank goodness that at least I have one student who is smart and wise. And he said, you win, my daughter. All your other students take back all those goods from the houses where you stole them from. You don’t need to worry, because I told all the villagers to expect you a long time ago. It’s a setup. It was a test to see if you understand what morality and virtue is, because whenever you take something, just as this student understood, you see yourself stealing. That’s why if you have any sexual impropriety, your wife may not see, your husband may not see you, but you see you doing that. That’s why you cannot hide any sort of bad acts of body or speech. That’s why we have to be restrained. Because whatever you do, you see yourself doing that. And that has a huge imprint on your mind, on your happiness and well-being. That’s what the Buddha meant by the the conscience and the karmic consequences of these things. It’s imprinted on the mind of the one who does it. So we all have to have some type of restraint in life.


OP, regarding your situation, I’d say you’re not breaking any precepts. Especially because you receive a monthly salary—if you billed by the hour and charged customers for more hours than you actually worked for them, that would clearly be immoral. Whether your actions align with the sila, hiri, and ottappa in your heart is something you have to investigate yourself. The precepts are tools for training the virtue in the heart.

The modern workplace puts a lot of stress on keeping perfectly pure precepts. I have difficulties along similar lines in my profession. Each layperson has to to deal with these sorts of things in their own way, unique to their particular job. This common passage from the suttas speaks to that fact:

It isn’t easy, living at home, to practice the holy life totally perfect, totally pure, a polished shell.

-MN 101

We just have to do our best and keep refining.

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Some great insight by people here. :slight_smile:

I think one thing that’s missing here is: Communication with the supervisors directly these issues.

Sometimes, supervisors are understanding, and know that 6-8 hours of uninterrupted “work” is unrealistic. They will be sympathetic to the issue, and tell the worker to still write down XYZ hours, even if some of it is “resting” or such. If this is the outcome, buyer’s happy, seller’s happy, no foul! :slight_smile:

There’s a chance they’re unreasonable people, and say “Wym, you’re supposed to work non-stop XYZ hours in fact!” Then, the worker knows that they’re dealing with unreasonable people. In which case, perhaps that’s the canary in the coal mine for the worker to realise that’s not a place to work.

But of course, that’s a whole lot of different questions then, going back to your inquiry. In which case I’d repeat Venerable’s reply:

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May I add to the wonderful insights and guidance already offered…

From another lens, I run software development teams and have written lots of these contracts. Ideally, contracts could stay silent on naming the # of hours per week and the general schedule. But, for a few reasons, they have to state this. None of which, as far as I can tell, have anything to do with fearing a software developer will be a slacker :innocent:.

To the extent possible, on the ground I convince my clients to avoid establishing “office hours” with the software developers for precisely the reasons you state.

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Here’s one more perspective on personal productivity. I’ve been repairing sewing machines for 42 years and have been self-employed for almost all of that time. I work alone in my home workshop and for the last 20 years I’ve had a very wide range of productivity cycles. Sometimes I’m motivated, I get into a groove and plow through my queue and other times I just drag my feet. I seem to ramp up or down due to the fluctuation of my workload. But my productivity gets better year after year and my knowledge and skill level adapts and grows and my client base never stops growing.

The one thing that has helped me more than anything is along the lines of what Venerable Pasanna said. Your work is a major part of your life and your life is where you walk the Noble Eightfold Path. It’s important to put one’s professional work squarely in the Noble Eightfold Path, in Right Livelihood. It’s also super important to have Right Intention and Right Action to do one’s best. If you know that you’ve done your best, you won’t have any remorse and if you don’t have remorse and restlessness, you’re overcoming a major hinderance to the path. Acknowledging this in your life will brighten your mind with joy and joy is one of the major keys to unlocking the Dhamma.

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Ont thing I always try to remind folks is that not all unwholesome behaviour falls under the 5 precepts. Of course we can kind of relate most bad things there in some way. But trying to shoe horn things in isn’t helpful and is often misleading.

In the current case, it seems much more like a broken promise than anything else. In the Vinaya if you promise to give something you haven’t committed the offense of stealing if you don’t give it.

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So many beautiful answers, thank you all, kindly!

I need to contemplate on this. This situation creates a lot of stress in me, and I am wondering why, since most people I spoke with (and they are mostly Buddhists) are pretty sure that this is not a strict violation of precepts.

Question: why does it not break 4th precept? Like a person in question knows that he worked less than 8 hours and still writes 8. If someone reads it, he will be deceived, no?

But I understand it is mostly used for different purposes, but still…

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From a more personal perspective I always hated working for other people, because there was a lot of time waste. People around me seemed fine with this. I even had one job where there was almost no work and I wanted to quit because I didn’t like getting paid to do nothing but my bosses wanted to keep me on! It comes back to the idea of personal integrity (hiri). I just didn’t like being that person

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In the monk’s Vinaya, promising to do something and then failing to do it is considered a more minor offense than the first pacittiya of lying.

I can’t claim to know why the Buddha made it like that. My guess is that any claim about the future (“x will happen”) has some inherent uncertainty. Predictions are hard! So we should be a little bit understanding if people can’t keep their promises.

That doesn’t make it okay! It’s still a breech of the Vinaya and an unskillful act. It just isn’t as bad as e.g. perjury or larceny.

It’s one of the beautiful things about the Dhamma-Vinaya that the Buddha made a clear ranking of which unwholesome actions are more serious and which are less serious. So we know where to focus our efforts :blush:

Then it’s definitely not wrong!

Yeah, I have a bit of that “Protestant Work Ethic” problem too from growing up in Midwest farm country. :face_with_hand_over_mouth: Living in Thailand is a great reeducation on that front! The “sabai” culture is sometimes shockingly relaxed! :see_no_evil_monkey:

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I guess the biggest source of doubt is that in the described scenario I would log 8 hours at the end of the day, while knowing that I spent an 1-1.5h napping when working from home. Even if I know it was needed (sometimes even bucket of coffee can’t make it) and I was productive afterwards, there is this feeling of deception.

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I don’t know about Sweden, but in California, multiple breaks and a lunch breaks are mandatory because people perform better with rest. Working from home is self-regulation to perform optimally. Do you honestly know that you perform better with that rest than without? Will you have less risk of job burnout because of your power naps? Are your employers satisfied with your output?

Over the holidays, the company my wife works for gives all employees time off between Christmas and New Year. Since she’s new and in a probationary time, she wasn’t entitled to it. The HR director told her to call in sick and use her accrued sick time. She felt weird to “lie” but the head of HR said it’s just a formality.

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