Do you think the Theravadins won this debate?
Theravādin: If your proposition is true, it must also be true a fortiori that a series of bad conscious units is concentration, whether it is accompanied by lust, hate, or any of the ten corruptions. This you deny … .
Did the Theravadins deny the suttas (MN 117, SN 45.12, AN 10.104, etc) refer to “wrong concentration”? Therefore a series of unwholesome conscious units could be classed as “wrong concentration”, such as the concentration required of an assassin to track & shoot a person.
Controverted Point: That the continuity of consciousness is concentration of mind? Cittasantati samādhīti?
The word translated as ‘continuity’ is ‘santati’, which the dictionary says can mean ‘a stretch’.
santati
feminine
- continuity, duration, subsistence Ds.643; Ne.79; Mil.72, Mil.185 Vb-a.8, Vb-a.170, Vb-a.173; Vv-a.25; Vism.431, Vism.449. citta˚ continuity of consciousness Kv.458; cp. Cpd. 6, 1531 252 sq.; dhamma˚; continuity of states Mil.40; rūpa˚ of form Vb-a.21; saṅkhāra˚; causal connection of material things Thag.716.
- lineage Mil.160.
fr. saṁ + tan, lit. stretch
While possibly not related, this Pali word ‘santati’ reminds me of the Pali words ’ ṭhiti’, ‘ṭhita’, ‘tiṭṭhati’, etc. For example:
“Mendicants, the arising, continuation, rebirth, and manifestation of the eye…mind… consciousness… contact… five aggregates… elements… etc… is the arising of suffering, the continuation of diseases, and the manifestation of old age and death.
“Yo kho, bhikkhave, cakkhussa uppādo ṭhiti abhinibbatti pātubhāvo, dukkhasseso uppādo, rogānaṁ ṭhiti, jarāmaraṇassa pātubhāvo.
SuttaCentral
If there is no ‘stretch’ or ‘continuity’ of consciousness of an object, can can arising & passing of consciousness & its objects be discerned? In other words, how long is a piece of string?
It’s when a mendicant meditates observing rise and fall in the five grasping aggregates.
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu pañcasu upādānakkhandhesu udayabbayānupassī viharati:
‘Such is form, such is the origin of form, such is the ending of form.
‘iti rūpaṁ, iti rūpassa samudayo, iti rūpassa atthaṅgamo;
Such is feeling, such is the origin of feeling, such is the ending of feeling.
iti vedanā, iti vedanāya samudayo, iti vedanāya atthaṅgamo;
Such is perception, such is the origin of perception, such is the ending of perception.
iti saññā, iti saññāya samudayo, iti saññāya atthaṅgamo;
Such are choices, such is the origin of choices, such is the ending of choices.
iti saṅkhārā, iti saṅkhārānaṁ samudayo, iti saṅkhārānaṁ atthaṅgamo;
Such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the ending of consciousness.’
iti viññāṇaṁ, iti viññāṇassa samudayo, iti viññāṇassa atthaṅgamo’ti.
SuttaCentral